Anthony Bourdain doesn’t think much of Sydney but loves Melbourne. The New York Times restaurant critic Patricia Wells seems to agree that Melbourne’s Flower Drum is the best Chinese restaurant in the world (for its Peking duck at least).Now the LA Times food critic S. Irene Virbila, is wading in to the debate rating Sydney as one of the best places in the world to eat.The divides between the hometowns of the protagonists of this debate perhaps illustrates the cultural differences between Melbourne and Sydney. What Melbourne does best is intimate little underground joints. Melbourne is establishment with dark, smoke filled rooms. Typically you turn up a laneway, down another and up into an attic/down into basement. Coming from London I love this kind of stuff. As does Bourdain coming from NY. And I presume Wells likes this as she took a similar route down an alley and up some stairs to the Flower Drum. Or at least she really likes duck.In contrast, the LA Times lauds Sydney for being able to do what many restaurants in the world have failed to do: create great restaurants with even better views. Traditionally we’ve been suckered into enjoying the view and playing with the food rather than eating it.So here we have it in Sydney. Icebergs overlooking Bondi Beach together with Sean’s Panorama. Sailors Thai, Bill’s, the Book Kitchen, Longrain, Marque Restaurant, Billy Kwong, Pier, Fish Face, The Boathouse on Blackwattle Bay, Tetsuya’s.Neil Perry’s Rockpool failed to meet the list!Sure Sydney has good eating and we’ve enjoyed most of those joints. But Sydney is expensive. And Melbourne in affordable at most joints. When we rate restaurants there has to be a relationship between the quality of food and the affordability for the average (f—die) punter.For any American visiting Australia or Brit our food at the top end is very cheap despite the fact that the local dollar is overvalued. And that is why for them it is perhaps so good.But I live in Melbourne and when I have to spend my hard earned cash I know I’ll be looking for value or money. Well, most of the time anyway.
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I think this comment thread has srayed too far from th eoriginal and is strayimng away from the object of this blog. Darkhawk, why don’t you set up something on blogger to continue the debate. I can provide you a file with this original post and comments to get you started if you like. Let me know via email.
Cheers
LOOLZ well said Sean. Darkhawk really needs help with his drinking and alot of it, maybe some anger management also.
darkhawk quotes “only the great can be arrogant” ?? darkhawk the GREAT ??? wow thats an understatement, so what are you great of? great of being drunk? or great of being a total dickwad?.
I’m sure you fall in those categories easily.
Hey, great name Victoria!
Seems like Ronk has had a few friends join the conversation, nice ploy dickhead! I wonder if these pseudonyms are the voices in his head.
As I did say that I will ignore Ronks comments, this is directed at his other personalities: NICE TRY! Who’s showing their true self (selves?) now?
Maybe I’m wrong, who knows, there’s no way of proving it. It’s just odd that since I said I was ignoring Ronk everyone’s come out of the woodwork and started having a go at me. That’s fine, I’m sure that someone cares what you think of me, I certainly don’t. Why would I, to you I’m only a name with a few words attatched. And what have I said that has gotten up the nose of so many people all of a sudden? Surely telling Ronk that our debate was OVER couldn’t have been construed as being directed to everyone else? No-one had a go at Ryan (post #172) for calling us Melbournian’s ““self indulgent” cunts”, which is much more offensive than admitting that I’ve had a couple of beers!
I’ve checked my email before posting this. I started typing after post 200 and “Ed” has suggested setting up my own thread. I will do this so people can stop wasting everyone elses time with pointless comments because they are either Catholic or have no sense of humour. Even Custardcrazy suggested this a while back so it probably is a fantastic idea! Have a go at me, debate the topics I put forward, whatever. Just have fun! I won’t respond to anyone on here without something relevant to say on the topic of “Melbourne vs Sydney” out of respect, so if you have something to say, do it somewhere else.
By the way, I’m totally sober!
Leave Ronk out of this, his got his own opinions and so does everyone else.
ITS OVER
Wow, i must say the recent articles on the daily telegraph and SMH here in Sydney have been rude awakenings. “Melbourne, bigger than Sydney by 2056″
Uh, alright. since when do such futuristic statistics underpin the divide between the two cities? If Australia becomes a republic state, bids are on Sydney to host the centre of political affairs as opposed to Canberra. This would without a doubt exert more people/jobs/income into Sydney.
There is a noticeable gap between the two:
Sydney, the one that has it. &
Melbourne, the one that wants to have it.
Yes, i must admit having been raised my life here in Sydney, what it would be like living in Melbourne; where the city functions properly, the bar scene hails and the iconic sporting events take place. I would love to be in that scene. But unfortunately, if i wanted a city with these features, i’d move to Europe; where it’s done right!
Most people see it as bad, but really the poor people are leaving, us all the more reason for sydney to bask into an exclusive allure of unrivalled prestige.
O, but Melb. is the fashion capital?
REALLY??
I’m pretty sure that even sydneysiders would agree thats the case. Why? Cause its bloody cheaper than Sydney thats why.
Leading on to another point, Sydney is too expensive, Melbourne is affordable. What do you expect, when the demand in Sydney has been restricted by supply. Prices rise, investors look elsewhere, O here we have a cheap hole i.e. melbourne, thus lets move here.
Sydney is flawed by its over density whilst Melb is planned. All this tells us is that there is a great significant gap between the booms and upbringings of the cities. Sydney is the premier and oldest city. It didnt have the technology back then to build a sustainable and effecient city like Melbourne which started to boom way after Sydney established itself as the biggest city.
Clearly, i have been biased towards Sydney, but think about it guys if we (SYD) had the bar, food, fashion scene all for ourselves, then what would be the point of calling this country Australia, when really it would be Sydney. I think its great that there are other things outside of Sydney that can be marvelled at.
Tourism in Melb overtook that of Sydney’s. Does it mean people are tired of sydney and that Melb is better? No. it means okay, we’ve done everything Sydney has to offer, could there be anything else the country has to offer? Bring in Melbourne.
Sydney is currently in turmoil. It seems the ‘it’ city hasn’t got the grasps to support itself. Public transport (i am a uni student, travelling 2.5 hours everyday on the bloody trains) is beyond pathetic, the smelly people, and the amount of times i have to stand up to get home all the way to the other side of Sydney is a pain. Goo Melb, your brilliant transport system. How about trying to manage the near million that uses the system each day here in Sydney. All these problems are furthermore exacerbated by the sh*t lines of government strings we’ve had. Finally, to all the people that left Sydney, and flooded cheap yes i shall say cheap cities like brisbane and melb. thanks
Sydney is going through its depression stage whilst melbourne is at an upswing. Thus it is expected that Syd. would have problems and it too is expected that Melb. would enjoy benefits. But its called the life cycle.
The time is ticking, and the time till sydney goes into its inevitable drastic boom draws nearer, and as the sydney boom have shown in the past, when a world city like syd booms, it booms in a big way. Watch out Melbourne =P
nicely said “melbourne…please” … i love sydney and melb because of its diverse offerings, diversity is great for this big country of ours. I once lived in the big smoke and loved every minute of it but had to move back down to melb because of work.
Melb seems to hype itself up all the time like its the fucking capital city of planet earth living with its glory, its not the fashion capital, it only named itself that title because of cheap prices.
Sydney is the only largest financial city in OZ which has the RBA, ASX, headquarters of 90 banks with 500 multinational corporations, caltex, commbank and the list goes on and on.
Yes, its true sydney is in turmoil because of the state government and maybe its melb turn to shine. But, sydney will shine again dont you worry about that.
Sydney is the hot chick with prestige looks while Melbourne is the ugly girl with braces hahaha….. born and bred in Melbourne here.
Sorry Melbourne but i prefer Sydney, although Melbourne has got a lot to offer you just don’t cut it with scenery that you can look at everyday of the week. I live at Watsons Bay and a 360degree view of the harbour and ocean outside of my house, i can easily access the national parks by bicycle and by foot, harbour ferries is just down the road and traveling time is only 15mins into circular quay and darling harbour.
Wouldn’t it be great if Sydney had the F1 Grand Prix, AFL Grand Finals, Melbourne CUP (if Sydney had that, it would be called The Sydney Cup), Melbourne has the sporting prestige but only held once a year, Sydney may not have the sports but has 24/7 natural beauty which Melbourne will never have.
Sydney may not be the most livable city in the world but its right up there with London, Paris and New York as a Global City, When Sydney puts on a show the whole world sees it, “All Show but no Substance” as some people may say pfffffffffffftttt! the only people mention that quote is people from Victoria and most of them havent been to Sydney, never left Melbourne or even traveled outside the country.
Sydney will rise again after this little depression she’s having but when she does, she’ll do it in great style pushing Melbourne aside once again.
Yes. i cant agree more to the latter of the comment prior to this. What a pathetic time for Melbournians to stand up and attack Sydney. In the midst of a NSW state heading into recession whilst Vic is at a stage where it is enjoying the perks of a healthy eonomy, it would seem obvious to strike when its at its weakest. In response to the SMH article [found in rant made 09.15.08] that data which ironically was gathered by a smelbourne, is at most a load of misleading shit. And the winner is Melbourne? pft/ It is going great at the moment, but it won’t last. And that quote where Melb may be bigger than Sydney, is beyond misleading i cant emphasize my anger and why they’d mention that. Clearly producing demographic figures 50 years from now if the environment in both cities remains the same is bullshit.
Gees. just stop the so called arguement. It would be ore interesting when Sydney booms again, which has been predicted to start around 2010, then all the benefits will flow, and the major injections will catapult our standings and redeem its currently battered image which gave melbournians a stupid perception that Sydney was weakening and that it was possibe to over take it.
Though i do have to say, im am in awe with crown casino. Yes one of a very few things i admit is better. though i must include that a second casino is on its way to sydney aha.
I once saw a site that sydney will be revamped, which includes expanding darling harbour, adding more national parks around the city, removing the overpass which currently runs above circular quay, expanding town hall and make it people friendly by adding more restaurants, cafes and an entertainment arena.
Transform George st and making it permanently for pedestrians, the removal of the darling harbour overpass freeway and placing it underground, All streets around Sydney will be widened.
I’ve also heard that Circular Quay & Darling Harbour will be transformed dramatically and make it a cultural hub with cultural precincts made by artist and designers from around the world which is to outdo the federation square that Melbourne has.
Wow! if this is true that is great for Sydney, its about time we got rid of Morris Dilemma what a tosser and one of the worst premiers ever.
“Melbourne….please” since your a man of knowledge do you know anything this? i cant seem to find the website for this info as its rather new.
cheers
Sounds promising, Kennett made an outline for Melbourne’s expansion while in office and we now have the docklands development and fed square. He was brilliant at instilling pride in our city and I rekon we are on the up due to his great work. He’s doing it again at Hawthorn (WE’RE GONNA SMASH THE CATS NEXT WEEK!!!!!)
I really hope this goes ahead so us Melbournians can again try and outdo you guys, and we can boast about our great cities to everyone around the world even more!
CARN THE HAWKS!!!!!
As much as i’d hate to say, i personally have not seen or heard almost every plan that has putforward by person [im too lazy to scroll up and check author loooool~] Although it seems a perfect plan, to me it lacks realism by quite a long shot.
Making George street car free? That’s beyond absurd. George street is by far the busiest street and if there was such a thing, the number one street in the country. Stretching from Central, cutting straight through the CBD till it hits circular quay has invesments worth heavy millions. Cutting such a vital road will be chaos for our already chaotic road plan. Widening streets, possible. Expanding town hall is obviously a certain, any place in Australia will expand given time.
However there are two ticks on the list that was given. the 1st, i recall the parks and more greener look Sydney being planed for the future. (which personally sucks, as id rather higher, taller, just more buildings in the city; as to make it look larger.) And the second was the arena. Ironically the suggestion for this was put forward as “jealousy” instigated by our melboure counterparts, saw that more international/ world events were being staged at Melb ratther tan Sydney. Thus the crumbling entertainment center will be brought down, and in its ashes, will come a state of the art stadium, though i highly think it would not match the grandeur of the MCG given the space that is given to develop the stadium.
So now when an event occurs in Sydney, the spectacular lights of the city will bedazzle the audience. And unlike Melb. Sydney’s CBD has the tenth most populous skyscrapers above 90m for a city in the world. More to marvel at.
And i need to include that more trams are being planned for sydney. lol. However, being the traditional up myself sydneysider, we dont call them trams. It’s simply called ‘light rail’
LOOOOOOOL
gees at sydney, even i have to say.
I have a mate of mine that works for the mayor of sydney and she forwarded the site: http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/
I had a look at it and i reckon transforming Sydney will a great thing for its residents and visitors alike.
Well done NSW, its a pat on the back for you and looks very promising, lets be positive here and make our city renowned for its features.
Melbourne have identified themselves in so many ways, their Mayor actually looks after his people and i am sure we can learn from them as they learn from us.
Have a quick look at it whether you like it or not at least our Mayor does care for the people of Sydney and NSW.
Hey darkhawk, i like the layout of melbourne and its very people friendly especially your transport system which surpasses ours up here, well done to you guys and im sure both city will be up there with great things to come.
In response to Robert,
a ruke of thumb is not to directly compare the transport system of Melbourne to Sydney. As you mentioned, Melbourne is planned out (in other words spaced out) whereas Sydney is squeezed espescially at the CBD. This in combination with Sydney having a transport system established well before Melboune would clearly present problems.
As i stated in a previous comment, Commuters in Melbourne are well and truly below the numbers of commuters travlling to and from the city in Sydney. So again, its obvious there system would work, much like Perth who too have a brilliant transport system, though they may have a commuter peak of 36 people in the morning. lol.
I also find it interesting that Sydney defines peak hour in multiple hours, which defeats the purpose of the name, and remains the only city in the country that does this.
Personally peak hour, is every effing hour on the western line =(
AHHHHHHHHHHH, just want to know where to go, melbourne or sydney, only have 9 days – 12/26/08. love the warm weather, should I choose sydney?
Yeah, Sydney if you like the warmer weather, but it is more humid. Depends where you’re from, Melbourne is starting to get warmer now spring is here and even winter is reletavely warm compared with similar latitudes in the northern hemisphere. Average for melbourne in winter is about 12-13C, Sydney 17-18C (rough guess), yet pretty similar for the rest of the year.
Melbourne is more european, has a greater sporting culture and has a better music/arts scene. Sydney is more american and has better scenery and touristy stuff. Both cities share similar qualities in a lot of ways, it’s just one does a couple of things better than the other.
Hope you enjoy wherever you choose, I’m sure you will!
I totally agree with the comment above, everyone has different taste and thoughts, yes melb has more of a european feel, easier to get around even though it doesnt pose as the big kahuna as sydney the lay out of melb is very friendly to locals and visitors. Nightlife in Melb is great, most clubs are located in alley ways this gives a feel like your in the city if Prauge, Czech Republic. Melb, host many sporting events if your a sports fan.
Sydney, is the oldest, very busy and covers 3 times (a guess) the size of paris and london, the views are spectacular, if you like bushwalking there are endless of national parks nearby, beaches are only 15mins away, if you like the adventure and chaotic scene then “sydney” is for you. Sydney is very much alive and events around the city are endless, alot of my friends from around the world have loved sydney so much that they cant get enough of it, a few have actually immirgrated to syd and enjoying what the city has to offer.
Public transport in and around the city is relatively great and improving to cater for everyone. I stayed for only 1week but decided to stay for an extra 2months to get the real feel of sydney and i must say it was an excellent decision.
Hope this piece of info helps you out “melsyd” and good luck with your travels.
Oh and another thing which i forgot to mention for “melsyd”, between October to Jan Sydney holds cultural and arts festivals by the foreshores during summer time. If you like opera, all top international artists play in the opera house and usually sold out within weeks! a great way to take your partner to end a perfect day.
Thank you so much for your input! I finally decided I couldn’t decide, and am going to both! Will spend New Years Eve in Sydney for the spectacular fireworks, really looking forward to that!
Thanks again!
Your welcome anytime, just for piece of mind! if your going to the new years eve fireworks i would recommend turning up early at around
3-4pm and grab a spot with a vantage view of the harbour and opera house. Last year there was 1million people that turned up on the foreshores to watch the fireworks and i garuantee that you’ll enjoy every minute of it.
Try to be in Melbourne for Feburary and March, the weather is HOT and the best place to be is St Kilda, with the festivals and F1 Grand Prix on. Even if you don’t like the F1, the atmosphere is brilliant! Pity you’ll miss Grand Final week in Melbourne, it’s buzzing at the moment!
Oh yeah, GO HAWKS!!!!
Just a comment to add. I am from Western Sydney and I notice that people think Sydney is all about the harbour the beaches and the land marks. This is truly its face, however one should not forget that Sydney is truly diverse (some would also say divided). In the west of Sydney you have the Southern Highlands to the South West, the Blue Mountains / Nepean River to the west, and Hawkesbury Valley / River to the North West. Beautiful and amazing countryside and rivers. You also have the second oldest city in Australia in Parramatta (a mini-city on its own), and Sydney Olympic Park (a 640 hectare site). If you want to try authentic and cheap dining from migrant communities, go to places like Cabramatta, Fairfield and Bankstown. If you have never tried a Turkish coffee, I would recommend it. This coffee has more histroy than the latte. There is more to Sydney than just the blonde bimbo that everybody perceives.
Thank you all again, I will definitely plan on getting a spot for the fireworks early. And Sam, thanks for your input also, I would love to explore outside of the city proper, maybe do some hiking in the Blue mountains, etc. If I had to choose one of the places you mentioned, which would you suggest?
To Melbourne…. Please,
You are fairly typical of the type of Sydneysider who tries too hard to justify Sydney’s shortcomings while expressing an attitude of superiority toward other cities.
You claim that Sydney lacks planning because it is so much older than Melbourne and there was not the technology to plan better back then. San Francisco, Washington and even Parramatta are the same age as Sydney and they are properly planned. You will even find older cities like Philadelphia, Baltimore and New York, just to name a few, that have better planning than Sydney. As for Australian state capitals, Hobart is only 15 years younger than Sydney and it was planned. In fact Sydney is the only capital not properly planned. If there is a reason for this it might be because Sydney was not settled with the intent of founding a city unlike Melbourne. I don’t know if the other penal colonies in Australia were intended to become cities or not but in any case they still executed a plan, unlike Sydney…
Melbourne was founded nearly 50 years after Sydney and within 30 years it was larger and richer. That rapid growth is something Sydney has never known and yet Melbourne was able to cope with it and plan as it grew, though there would have been stresses.
You also said that Sydney’s transport system was established well before Melbourne’s and that is the excuse for its problems. Melbourne had the first steam train in Australia and its rail network also developed faster than Sydney’s. Melbourne’s network was also electrified first. Sydney did have a tram before Melbourne but it had tracks that protruded from the road and damaged the wheels of other road users and was closed after 5 years. Great plan that one. After the trains Sydney’s tram network did develop a little earlier and faster than Melbourne’s trams. Part of the reason Sydney’s trains were slower to develop was because the tram network was working well. Sydney did eventually have a tram network larger than Melbourne’s is even today, but then Sydney ripped it up…??? How sad it is that we can no longer enjoy the beauty of Sydney Harbour from the window of a tram? It must have been a great ride.
You mentioned how Perth’s transport network is great but joked that it doesn’t have to handle many people, “36” people in fact. Perth’s network is good and much of it built recently. Perth is currently leading the way with public transport in Australia. Of course Perth does have healthy finances but it still shows good planning and while its network doesn’t have to handle as many people as Sydney’s, it’s is all to scale. Just like Sydney’s network doesn’t have to handle as many people as New York’s, London’s, Hong Kong’s, Paris’s, Tokyo’s… etc, but theirs work better than Sydney’s and probably Melbourne’s too.
You mentioned Melbourne’s sporting calendar and bar scene but said if you wanted that kind of thing you would move to Europe where it is done right. Is it not done right in Melbourne? A London based company rates Melbourne the best city in the world to hold a sports event and while I don’t have figures, by all accounts our bars are comparable to the some of the best.
Why is it that in the 90’s the MotoGP is left Victoria for Sydney over tobacco sponsorship but soon returned again to Victoria where it remains? Is that because you did it right and we didn’t?
As for dazzling skylines and tall buildings, Sydney may have more buildings higher than 90m but according to skyscraperpage.com Sydney’s tallest building is only the 11th tallest in Australia including 2 under construction. I personally don’t mind tall skylines but they are becoming quite common, just like shopping centers, they don’t same appeal they used to have.
Melbourne… please, don’t try so hard, you don’t do Sydney any favors in the eyes of those who know the facts. I write this because there are obviously people who read all this and might be tempted to believe what you say. You don’t want to sound like Paul Keating when he said, “If you don’t live in Sydney, you’re just camping out”. No other Australian likes that kind of attitude and foreigners can see it for what it is.
You live in a beautiful city; it doesn’t have to be perfect…
The rivalry between Sydney and Melbourne is an old one that goes back over 150 years.
Both cities like to boast about what is better about their city over the other.
While Melbourne and Sydney hold various virtues over one another, I would say that the greatest virtues of all relate to geography.
Melbourne’s greatest fortune is the fact it experienced a major Gold Rush at a critical stage of its development. The Gold Rush propelled Melbourne forward and enabled it to build a solid foundation and grow to become for a time the largest city in Australia and reputedly the “richest in the world”. A title Sydney has never held.
Sydney’s greatest virtue is of course its harbour. While there is nothing quite like striking it rich, the bounty of the harbour never ran out, it’s like the gift that keeps on giving.
How Sydney must have felt when Melbourne raced passed it. That resentment still survives today. If it wasn’t for gold Melbourne would be no competition for Sydney and would be in the pack with the other 3 large capitals. Sydney would likely be even bigger and host most of the events and institutions it covets in Melbourne.
Melbourne is frustrated because no matter what it does or how hard it tries, Sydney will still have “The Harbour”, (and the rest of the geographical package), and all that comes with it. Even Sydney’s milder climate relates to geography, though it isn’t the advantage Sydney says it is unless you believe it.
There are of course other virtues Sydney holds over Melbourne but nothing so significant as its geography. In fact if you were to compare each city just in terms of their human activity, environment and legacy and not for what nature has provided then Melbourne looks far more attractive.
As the two cities grow the geographical advantage of Sydney may not be so strong. For example, the appeal of the world’s alpha cities has little to do with their natural beauty and much to do with their human element.
Melbourne’s geography while not as beautiful as Sydney’s has proven to be more practical. Melbourne’s sewage treatment has been much better largely due to geography. Melbourne is a much better city for bikes, Melbourne’s geography is better when building roads and other infrastructure and that saves money or gets you more for your dollar and so it goes. Every cloud has a silver lining.
The other thing about Melbourne’s geography is that its potential has often been understated and under realized. There is room for improvement and growth. Port Phillip Bay is like a pair of big shoes that Melbourne’s feet were too small for but the way Melbourne uses its bay will change a lot this century. While Sydney’s beautiful harbour is shrinking relative to the city around it.
If you were to put Melbourne in Sydney’s setting you would create a city better than either of them. That’s what I think…
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