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Anthony Bourdain doesn’t think much of Sydney but loves Melbourne. The New York Times restaurant critic Patricia Wells seems to agree that Melbourne’s Flower Drum is the best Chinese restaurant in the world (for its Peking duck at least).Now the LA Times food critic S. Irene Virbila, is wading in to the debate rating Sydney as one of the best places in the world to eat.The divides between the hometowns of the protagonists of this debate perhaps illustrates the cultural differences between Melbourne and Sydney. What Melbourne does best is intimate little underground joints. Melbourne is establishment with dark, smoke filled rooms. Typically you turn up a laneway, down another and up into an attic/down into basement. Coming from London I love this kind of stuff. As does Bourdain coming from NY. And I presume Wells likes this as she took a similar route down an alley and up some stairs to the Flower Drum. Or at least she really likes duck.In contrast, the LA Times lauds Sydney for being able to do what many restaurants in the world have failed to do: create great restaurants with even better views. Traditionally we’ve been suckered into enjoying the view and playing with the food rather than eating it.So here we have it in Sydney. Icebergs overlooking Bondi Beach together with Sean’s Panorama. Sailors Thai, Bill’s, the Book Kitchen, Longrain, Marque Restaurant, Billy Kwong, Pier, Fish Face, The Boathouse on Blackwattle Bay, Tetsuya’s.Neil Perry’s Rockpool failed to meet the list!Sure Sydney has good eating and we’ve enjoyed most of those joints. But Sydney is expensive. And Melbourne in affordable at most joints. When we rate restaurants there has to be a relationship between the quality of food and the affordability for the average (f—die) punter.For any American visiting Australia or Brit our food at the top end is very cheap despite the fact that the local dollar is overvalued. And that is why for them it is perhaps so good.But I live in Melbourne and when I have to spend my hard earned cash I know I’ll be looking for value or money. Well, most of the time anyway.
Popularity: 31% [?]
December 26th, 2005 at 4:21 am
Yes actually you are right.I just back to istanbul from Australia and had a wonderful food and wine experience in Melbourne and sydney But there is a huge difference e between sydney and melbourne.Sydney is a big city cosmopolitan and expencive.Food is much creative and restaurants are much better disayn than melbourne.But melbourne is also a big city but you dont feel it and restaurants are very casual which is nice for me food is alwasy very good good quality ingridents that they are using but biggest difference is in melbourne wherever you go to eat in a fine dining restaurant or a small cafe to eat thay you know you are not going to dissopointed of the food .I love melbourne and i would love to live in there and to get some work experince .I am 27 years old from Turkey and i am a qualified chef.All the best and happy new year
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:36 pm
I get more and more agitated when I read Sydney letters’ comments criticising other states. It is childish to write them but I question why newspapers print them. Is it an inferiority complex?
Last week there were comments printed about Victorian registration plates. Another letter printed was about Melbourne being “ancient” because it runs trams. Why not just say that Sydney does not want trams? Another tried to compare Sydney with Paris, London and Singapore as if they have something in common. They don’t. Yet another letter was printed which commented on green slip registration payments in NSW being 5 times that of Queensland. The writer then lowered himself by stating an irrelevant and unsubstantiated comment that that “we all know how bad Queensland drivers are….” I have yet to see a similar printed letter in a Melbourne newspaper. Would we ever be that shallow and feel that inferior?
I agree with the above heading though and I Melbourne is like New York while Sydney is like LA. Absolutely correct. I love New York but I hate LA.
I love Paris because it is like Melbourne. I love Singapore because it is like Melbourne. I love London because it is like Melbourne. I love Melbourne because it hasn’t rained for 16 days out of 20 this month. I love Melbourrne because we have three months of blistering heat followed by three months of Autumn, winter, then spring. I love Melbourne because no matter how you look at the weather statistics from the Weather Bureau, for the last week, month or three months, Melbourne has plain good weather. Over the last three months, Melbourne had 700 hours of sunshine, Sydney had 600. Melbourne had 24 days of rain. Sydney had 40. The average temperature of the two cities was 0.9C apart. So let’s drop the bleak city tag.
Maria Sharapova said not one hour ago that today was the hottest day she had experienced anywhere in the world. (Today and yesterday were 43C) More is expected later in the week at the Melbourne, Australian tennis Open.
I don’t particularly mind Sydney but I do mind the constant put downs when they are unsubstantiated, factually incorrect and often made from ignorance.
I would like to compare Melbourne to Sydney with everything from opening hours of airports to dry cleaners who open on Sundays. To live theatre and bars, to nightclubs and restaurants, from parks to sporting arenas to international events to house prices. From public transport to home ownership to salaries to disposable incomes.
I don’t like to compare the two capitals but I have no choice but defend inaccurate comments with facts. Melbourne is Australia’s first national capital. Melbourne is not running second to Sydney’s Olympics by staging the Commonwealth Games. Melbourne had the Olympics 50 years ago….Victoria is not Mexico. It is not more bleak in Melbourne than Sydney. It doesn’t rain more, it rains less. It has more sunshine hours per year and lower humidity. It has exactly half the rainfall. It has a mulitcultural society without race riots. It has a world class fire service which NSW calls upon every summer. So please let me enjoy living in Melbourne without the predictable comment when I visit Sydney “Oh you brought the weather with you” Please give me something to be positive about because I do actually like your city. But one more thing. Princess Mary of Denmark is actually from Hobart, studied at Monash Uni in Melbourne before working in a Melbourne advertising agency, but we aren’t claiming Mary is from Melbourne. So can you oplease stop claiming on your news bulletins that Mary is from Sydney……..
January 29th, 2006 at 2:52 pm
Well said!
January 30th, 2006 at 11:46 pm
Can someone answer me this..
Why can’t I buy steamed dim sims at a fish and chip shop anywhere in NSW?
Why do I have a choice of chicken salt or plain salt for my fish and chips and when did chickens learn to swim?
Why is it that everywhere in the world I can buy canteloupe but in Sydney I have to buy rock melon?
Why do I have to order a potato scallop in Sydney but a potato cake in Melbourne?
Why is it that I have to fly out of Sydney before 10.30pm?
Why do they still collect money at toll booths when they could use E Tags and keep traffic moving?
Why do they build two lane tunnels so that when there is an accident, they close both lanes?
Why does Darling Harbour have the biggest cockroaches on earth?
Why are the harbour bridge and the opera house, the only two things people remember Sydney by?
Why do NSW and Qld seriously follow rugby when the other four states couldn’t give a rats?
Why aren’t cars built in Sydney?
Why does NSW have ugly yellow number plates?
Why do Sydney men have their necks connected to their shoulders?
Why do Sydney women have gorgeous bodies but ugly heads?
Thank you.
January 31st, 2006 at 7:16 pm
Have you thought of starting a Melbourne vs Sydney blog. Could be very funny and get a lot of attention from both sides. BTW I completly agree although I’m not so worried about the potato scallop thing - they’re also called that in the north of England.
February 12th, 2006 at 1:09 am
Ed,
I’m only getting started.
Having lived in Melbourne for 40 odd and commuted to Sydney weekly the last 3 odd I have got a certain affinity with Sydney. I hate it.
Everything from the humidified Town Hall station to people who go home at 2pm on a Friday to get away for the weekend.
The laziest bastards on earth I tell you, and seriously, the ugliest women no question.
I worked with guys drooling over female colleagues with bodies like godesses but heads like buldogs (the females not the males). What is it with Sydney?
Give me a hot Melbourne chick any day. Face of an angel, body to die for, flaunts the body like an exotic dancer and roots like a rabbit. Could you ask for more?
What is it with Sydney? If they live in Roseville you would swear they think it is Toorak. It’s like South Yarra. 50 year old flats for $600K…….
Next week I am taking a packet of paper bags. If they won’t wear them I won’t root them. That simple.
Yep give us a blog on Sydney vs Melbourne and I’ll cream ‘em, no question
February 19th, 2006 at 12:03 am
London has the Thames, Melbourne has the Yarra. London has Lords, Melbourne has the MCG, London has Wimbledon, Melbourne has Rod Laver Arena, London has the Steeples, Melbourne has The Melbourne Cup, London has the British Grand Prix, Melbourne has the Australian Grand Prix, London has Wembley Stadium, Melbourne has Telstra Dome, London has the underground, Melbourne has trams, London has Hyde Park, Melbourne has the Botanic Gardens, London has the houses of parliament, Melbourne has Parliament House, London has Victoria Station, Melbourne has Flinders Street, London has London Bridge, Sydney has the Harbour Bridge, London has The Albert Hall, Sydney has the Opera House. Is Sydney known for anything more than for just two things?
February 19th, 2006 at 10:08 am
Nice one. Did they wear the paper bags?
June 6th, 2006 at 8:02 pm
I might be moving to Australia in October for studying. I am having problems chosing between Qeensland Brisbane and Melbourne is it what u also call Victoria??
Someone help me, i luv the sun, hate winter, luv big city life, making friends,i am social, i might also be needing apart time job ..(student thing)
Will i get all these in Sydney.?
June 15th, 2006 at 4:40 pm
Oh come on this is just puerile… apples and oranges anyone?
July 20th, 2006 at 11:16 pm
u got to choose melbourne. im only 15 years old and get to city very easy. just onto train straight to flinders in no time. then catch free city tram and get any wer in CBD. visit federation sqaure. victorian market. telstra dome. rialto tower. MCG, Crown Casino, londale and lygon street. what else could u ask for. a big bridge and an opera house. i can just catch west gate bridge or sing in my shower:)lol public transport in melbournes the best. Also new 6billions underground tunnel being built for better transport and another tunnel to connect 2 major freeways/highways. :D.
and sydney people say melbourne is a wet city. and bloody brisbane and sydney get more rain the melbourne.lolz
August 14th, 2006 at 12:36 am
u r all stupid. u cant compare the 2 cities - they r completely different. Ed said sydney is like LA - totally not true…..LA hot and balmy and has lots of smog whilst sydney is hot and balmy but hardly has any smog (except on rare occasions). Enough Innacuracies went on about sydney having ugly women - from his comment, it seems to me that men from melbourne seem to think about only one thing - rooting anything that looks pretty. and there is no way u can say that “women r ugly from sydney” and “melbourne women are hot hot hot etc” as there r so many women in both cities that there r both hot and ugly women in both (believe it or not mr melburnian). anyway, melbouring is to organised - has no problems except that ur DOCKLANDS PROJECT WAS A COMPLETE DISASTER!!!! every picture i’ve looked at (and believe me, that’s alot) has had no people in the development. anyway……. as i said before, sydney and melbourne r completely different and u cant compare them. Sydney has proper beaches (with actual warm water and waves) whilst melbourne has windswept frozen beaches which r only slightly hospitable if u swim with a windcheater - i noticed when i went to melbourne on my last visit a couple weeks ago that EVERYONE was wearing a wind cheater whilst no one in sydney does. but i do have to admit - melbourne is a nice city (too flat) - and also sydney too!!!! opera house u cannot compare with anything in melbourne at all and the harbour is SPECTACULAR no matter what the weather. Harbour Bridge is also very nice and beats West Gate Bridge hands down. Melboururnians go on and on about the MCG but u never here sydneysiders go on about TELSTRA STADIUM (aka stadium australia and also olympic stadium) as well as the rest of the olympic park - easily compares with all the sporty arenas in the MCG vicinity. Melbourne also not organic enough. - sydney has random laneways (yes, thats right melburnians, sydney also has laneways with people, restaurants and cute little galleries - just not so many in the CBD - but actually found in the inner city area - especially kings cross, potts point, paddington, surry hills, darlinghurst etc. anyway, melbourne has a massive advantage over sydney becuase it has generally had much better leaders - sydney has been stuffed around its entire life u see - very sad, but has given sydney its own (NON LA) character (at least in the inner west, lower north shore, manly area, eastern subs, and city) which is very laid back.
But a big thing many people dont realise - sydney and melbourne are completely the same basically once you venture forth out of the inner areas - melbourne has posh eastern urbs - sydney has posh harbour lining and north shore and hills area - melbourne has sprawling western suburbs - same with sydney.
the natural beauty of sydney (however stuffed up in places) cannot and never can be beaten by melbourne - sydney pacific coast is lined with long craggy cliffs and palm beach way the houses are almost built into them on precipitous overhangs - same with bondi.
about the airports - sydney is much busier (by about 8 million passengers) and gets many more international arrivals and very soon sydney will be the only city in aus. to be served by a european carrier (austrian airways pulling out of sydney and melbourne and i think BA has already pulled out of melbourne but has stayed in sydney - also virgin atlantic flies to sydney)whilst in area, melbourne is twice as big - sydney airport ten minute drive from city (which is why there is the curfew - to much noise pollution for bulk of city to sleep at night - courtesy of genious sydney government) whilst melbourne airport out in no man’s land on the fringes of nowhere.
i might add as well that the underground stations in Sydney’s CBD are like 40-50 yrs older than the ones in Melbourne. Sydney also has 15 underground stations (soon to be 18) whilst melbourne only has 3.
melbourne has trams and sydney is trying to put them back in (thanks once again to sydney’s lovely goverment they were torn out during the 50’s and 60’s).
sydney is also officially the business capital and has a WAY BETTER SKYLINE THAN MELBOURNE
melbourne’s too sparce - has two big clusters down towards rialto and up towards spring street with eureka standing alone in the middle - highly nervewracking skyline in my opinion. but seriously, Sydney’s is way better - has the density and is spread out nicely - though i dont like the way alot of the cbd looks like its not there because the ground slopes down to far. (the whole area from WORLD square to Central is missing). Sydney is also much older and has a much more exciting history
anyway, i am a sydney sider (my english is usually alot better, but since im not at school and doing something fun, who cares!!!) so this comment does sound a bit byist but i love both city’s because of their different identities, their uniqueness, their querks (sydney has more), and they r both two really great cities (though both need to be alot more less dearer especially sydney)
AND FACE, HOW BORING WOULD IT BE IF AUSTRALIA’S TWO MOST EXCITING CITIES WERE EXACTLY THE SAME - VARIETY IS GOOD
i love sydney more though
August 27th, 2006 at 9:31 pm
Sydney is the world in one city full of go-getters & jet-setters. Its fabulous, out-there and exciting!!
Melbourne is lovely but pretentious as far as ‘Europe’ goes.
Give me the REAL DEAL anyday!
August 27th, 2006 at 9:36 pm
Sydney is the ‘World’ in one city.
Melbourne is ‘Euro’ city.
Brisbane is Red neck city.
SYDNEY ALL THE WAY! MWAH
February 2nd, 2007 at 6:21 pm
I work as a chef in sydney and coming from London I find that the food is much more enjoyable because of the casual atmosphere in resturants in sydney bring plus the fact their its quite cheap to eat in sydney if you know where to go much like melbourne , although the article has brought up some of the great resturants in sydney i’d like to point out that icebergs overlooking bondi beach is quite exspensive for what you get not to mention you’ve got to know a member to get a table. Even though you talk about the best and most exspensive. you should try the many resturants down side streets that are talked about in quite whispers cause they usually serve the best food at the best prices
February 4th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
Dave
Good points and the same goes for Melbourne - seek out those little places in the side streets. i was recently in Sydney and enjoyed the backstreets of Surry Hills very much - Bottega and, shit I can’t remember the name of it.
February 24th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
Melbourne is way better then sydney. Sydney is congested with traffic all the time! one day we went for a drive to the city and we were just before the ANZAC bridge and we waited 1 hour and 45 mins just to get over!!!! Ill admit sydney has better beaches but there are more dangers at their beaches take Bondie for example, its crowded and to small.
The western suburbs of syndey is disgusting!trust me i know, cause i lives there.Melbourne has a more structured freeway where you can get to places fast and quick. Melbournes skyline is beutiful, and can be seen from just about anywhere in melbourne. pffft sydnes star casino can never compare to CROWN CASINO as it is 10 times the size of star city.
Sydneys skyline makes sydney look a like a lovely city, but its actually a rude congested nightmare! Melbourne beets sydney by far. and hey im not just favouring melbourne cause i live in perth!
February 24th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
all that people remeber of sydney is its bridge and oprah house, and its crowded beach!! thats all sydney has to offer!!!! i also feel so acostrophobic in sydney, and i feel like theres nowhere to open space!
unlike melbourne theres so much free space everywhere!
February 24th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
Jarrod, all good points but i am biaised towards Melbourne. Cheers
March 11th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
Restaurant-wise, I guess Melbourne simply wins hand-down in every category, be it low, mid or high end eating. Which Sydney’s best could possibly beat Melbourne’s Vue De Monde now?
Tetsuya’s is without doubt the best Sydney has to offer but it falls short of Vue De Monde.
Plus take into account the fact that Nobu will open its first branch in Crown Casino this year.
Now Sydney ppl, tell us if you can possibly have the answer to this prestigious import ?
March 12th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
You are right, it will be pretty amazing when all the restaurants open at Crown but I wonder what it will do for the rest of Melbourne’s fine dining.
March 16th, 2007 at 11:28 am
Competition only brings and drives more edginess and hence higher quality, Ed.
That’s an ever inevitable consequence.
March 19th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
Every city has their bad suburbs, but we’re talking about the ‘city’ here.
It feels more viabrant than melbourne’s.
Sydney is far more visually beautiful than melbourne and also Sydney is much denser in the actually city area with a sky rocketting population, will be another 30,000 higher in 3 years.
March 19th, 2007 at 8:59 pm
Chris you are right on the looks - i spent five years in Sydney. but i think you need to scratch a little deeer to see what a city is really about and if you do that melbourne has to win. the Sydney CBD is dead at night, for instance.
March 22nd, 2007 at 2:10 pm
It’s simple. Which city has won “Worlds most liveable” on more than one occasion? - Melbourne. Sydney was set up as a gaol - convict stock, Melbourne was settled and planned civilly.
March 29th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
Ok. sydney has a city twice as large as melb. and also is more dense and more populated. but what difference does that make? is a bigger city the better city? Melbourne has a older skyline but also bursts with with new mdern buildings. such as eureka tower. Also melbourne has the larger building. Sydney transportation system is shit! seriously its way down the bottom on the worlds transprtation list. unlike melbourne has an extensive network. such as trams railways subways and an excellent freeway and road system. sydneys is really bad. theres not an actuall freeway that feeds past the city. Yes sydeny has the better CITY! looks. but anywhere out of bondi sydney CBD or manly. then its a shit hole! but then theres brisbane who thinks there on the top of world cause there gettin a new long tunnel. who gives a shit! Even though its the fastest growing city after melb. and sydeny is tugging behind. oh yer trust me if you go to the west suburbs be sure take a gun, always lock doors, NEVER leave children in the cars alone, and dont wonder the streets alone! i would no coz i livd in blacktown for 3 years
April 16th, 2007 at 10:43 am
Okay kids, let’s find out once and for all which is the better city. Check out this website called Stand By Your Town - you can actually give a place a score out of 10 and then leave a rant and a rave saying why that place rules or sux. Sydney is currently trailing well behind Melbourne, so Sydneysiders, get in there and do what you do best! http://standbyyourtown.com/australia/nsw/sydney
April 29th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
Ha! We print that type of stuff in our papers because we have a SENSE OF HUMOUR, ever heard of it? Everyone know that Sydney is Australia’s, if not the worlds, most beautiful city. Sydney is older thatn Melbourne, Sydney is the financial, food, and business captial of Australia. And comparing Melbourne to Singapore and Paris, ha ha! They are NOTHING alike.
No-one said Mary is from Sydney. And, if Melbournes so great, tell me why Australia’s main navy base is here? Tell me why Sydney has the Opera House and the Harbour bridge? Oh, I know. Because were better than Melbourne, and we know it.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Ha! Ha! Ha! Melbourne women? Pretty? PLEASE! Melbourne women are hairy wogs.
Sydney is remembered for:
Opera House
Harbour Bridge
CentrePoint Tower
Having the most beautiful natural ampitheatre in the world.
2000 Olympics
Beaches
The Rocks
Garden Island Naval Dock
Sydney International Airport
Powerhouse Museum
Mrs Macquarie’s Chair
Taronga Zoo
Royal Botanic Gardens
Manly Ferries
Hyde Park
National Maritime Museum
May 16th, 2007 at 11:09 pm
I’ve lived in Melbourne my whole life, been to Sydney about 6 times in my whole life….I haven’t even heard of half of the places you listed in your well…list….
May 16th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
Oh, and you Sydneysiders can stop stealing names from England;
Newcastle, Manchester, Macquarie. Please, come up with your own. Atleast Melbourne has its own brain.
May 20th, 2007 at 4:57 am
You know, for all the civility and posh attitude that you Melbournians are trying to create, in this comment list at least, you’ve really just undid all of that. All you people are doing is making yourself look like a pissy younger sister who’s dissing the older, better one just because she holds the titles.
Look, yes, currently you may have the titles of culture hub and sporting capital of Australia, but these are all changeable things. Sydney on the other hand was created first, it is first, it will ALWAYS be first in terms of the creation of cities in Australia. It’s also got the oldest and most prestigous university, buildings and landmarks. Sydney also has an amazing Harbour, you cannot deny that. Melbourne on the other hand has the Yarra, big woop. I’ll take the Harbour over the Yarra and the Thames anyday. Whereas Sydney can grow and eventually claim these culture hub and sporting capital titles from Melbourne, Melbourne can’t actually grow a Harbour or somehow become the first city.
And to the last commentor, what a great way to reveal your stupidity by saying that Melbourne has a brain because it can make up its own suburb and city names. Do you really think that all your names stem from original thought? Look on your map, all of those names are English names stupid. They’re all copied, just like Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide and Sydney. All our cities names are copied from English cities, places or people.
But seriously, do you really think you can compare Melbourne to London? Come on, you don’t even have the population or the scene.
Also, atleast Sydney isnt trying to copy another city. We are the Harbour City, that’s what we are, you on the other hand, are just trying to copy the European cities. That’s great, but you will eventually be forgotten and become generic, we won’t. We own you, you can’t deny it. You might have more cultural highlights or whatever and sporting events, but the rest of the world doesnt know that. The rest of the world instead sees Sydney. Face it Melbourne, when the world looks to Australia, it doesnt see you, it sees Sydney.
May 21st, 2007 at 9:10 pm
“I’ve lived in Melbourne my whole life, been to Sydney about 6 times in my whole life….I haven’t even heard of half of the places you listed in your well…list….”
Well, whats your point then? I don’t know if you realise this, but your arguing like a right fool. You’ve been to Sydney SIX, read it, SIX times, as compared to living your whole life Melbourne (you poor, poor soul), so perhaps thats why you havent heard of those places? DUH.
May 23rd, 2007 at 6:02 pm
I’ve lived in both cities (for years at a time), and to be honest, I love them both - and for different reasons. I detest waking up so cold that my bones hurt which happens regularly in Melbourne, but I also detest coughing so much from the smog in Sydney. There is no doubting Sydney’s three main draw cards - the Opera House, the Bridge and the Harbour, however, one can’t discount Melbourne’s Restaurants & Cafe’s, Sporting and harmonious cultural society. Someone mentioned above that Sydney was set up as a gaol - true, however, it should also be said in the same sentence that Melbourne was only created to stop the French. Both cities, to me, are fabulous! I love the fact that people are so passionate about their home town! But seriously, we should drop the comparisons of Paris, New York, LA etc. etc. - both cities are beautifully unique in their own fabulous ways - and they compliment each other so well. Image if both were the same - boring!
June 11th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
I think that Sydney is wayyyyyyyy better than Melbourne. If you paid me one million dollars to go and live in Melbourne I would not do it. I would actually do all that I could no never ever live in Melobourne. It is soooooooooooo dull. I went there last year in the SUMMER and every day the sky way grey. It is soooooo ugly and there are no beaches that are EVEN half-way decent. Sydney also is the home to Home and Away which is WAY better than boring old Neighbours!
June 14th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
“If you paid me one million dollars to go and live in Melbourne I would not do it. I would actually do all that I could no never ever live in Melobourne.”
Ok, well you’re an idiot. No one would give up a million bucks like that.
“It is soooooooooooo dull. I went there last year in the SUMMER and every day the sky way grey.”
How about this, I LIVE in Melbourne and have done so my whole life. Ever Summer the average temperature is 30 degrees. The skies are never grey. I don’t know what happened to you. (Except for Christmas last year. It rained for 4 days straight) But back to the point, I noticed we hotter days than Sydney, in Summer. We have 3 months of hot weather, 3 months of cool weather, 3 months of cold weather and 3 months of warm weather…just like you’re supposed to ^o).
“It is soooooo ugly and there are no beaches that are EVEN half-way decent.” Actually, Melbourne has CULTURE unlike your city which is just full of asians. We have a wide variety of DIFFERENT cultures. Our city is beautiful, have you even seen the view from The Rialto or The Eureka Tower? I didn’t think so…
As for our beaches, where do all the pro surfers come to surf for Roxy Comp (or whatever its called)? BELLS BEACH, that’s right. Where is it, I hear you ask? IN VICTORIA. NOT NEW SOUTH WALES. Not even Queensland. Trust me, you need to go to Torquay, Venus Bay, Sorrento and Bells Beach before you ever make a stupid judgement like that again.
“Sydney also is the home to Home and Away which is WAY better than boring old Neighbours!”
I’m pretty Neighbours is much better. Neighbours is not only watched but LOVED by England. You didn’t know that? Oh poor you, poor, poor you. Ask anyone in England. They’ll recite ever episode to you. Ask about Home & Away and they’ll be standing there scratching their heads.
Back to weather though, I remember going to Sydney in November last year for the long weekend (Melbourne Cup Weekend). My family wanted to go away for a change, so we went to Sydney. From the amount of criticism Melbourne got from Sydney, about our weather, I was expecting Sydney to have Californian weather. I was sadly mistaken. It rained for 4 days straight. The whole time we were there. I know what your thinking…[you were there for 4 days!!] yeah so what? You bag Melbourne for being grey and wet, the rain in Sydney didn’t even stop for a breath break. I also watch the weather everyday, I see the report for the Nations Weather. Sydney is never much better than Melbourne. I’m sorry to burst your bubble.
I’ll also add that Melbourne was named The World’s Most Liveable City.
Are you jealous, Sydney?
June 14th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
I want to clear up some misconceptions.
1.Melbourne has a population of 3.7 Million compared to Sydney’s 4.25 Million.
2. Melbourne is growing by 49,000 people per year, whereas Sydney by only 38,000 per year, suggesting Melbourne is growing faster.
3. Melbourne has grown faster than Sydney percentage wise and in numerical status for the last 6 years consecutivley.
4.Melbourne averages hotter days in summer than Sydney, and experiences longer sunshine hours during our summer months due to the dry, warm to hot mediterranean type weather. Sydney on the other hand is hot and humid with afternoon storms.
5.In summer the sun sets at 8:45pm and twilight in Melbourne is at 9:30pm.
The latest the sun sets in Sydney is 8:10pm and twilight at 8:45pm. This is due to Melbourne being further south.
5. Sydney is the denser city, but in the last 6 years Sydney built 18 skycrapers over 90m whereas Melbourne built 47 skyscrapers over 90m. Much more than Sydney.
Melbourne is the class act of Australia, Sydney is the popular girl in school.
My analogy is this:
The most popular girl in high school ends up either pregnant or working some shitty job at sports girl, whereas the less popular and quiet girl usually blooms into a successful flower in later life.
Melbourne is that girl, and in the future you will only see how Melbourne will change and continue to change, while Sydney remains the same looking out to its harbour with the same old landmarks.
peace out. Much love.
June 14th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
I love Melbourne, my home for the last six years.
Sydney is showy and glitzy, yes. But it’s where I was born and spent most of my life. I am bored shitless by people bickering about which city is better.
You know what? You can eat better food and live a much quieter life in Melbourne. But Sydney has her charms as well. Depends on what you want from life I guess.
You just can’t afford to eat in those big name places. Glad I live down here where 100 bucks buys you and your partner a VERY good night out.
June 15th, 2007 at 12:04 am
its never ending this rivalry… lets just agree to disagree!
June 16th, 2007 at 7:25 am
I hate myself for even entering the fray of this puerile, childish and reeking of inferiority complex ‘debate’. There are only 2 things I readily admit to envying about Melbourne - your public transport system and your bar scene. It must be said, though; the recent spate of new bars in Sydney have gone a very long way in bridging that gap. As for the supposed focus of this blog, ie food; well … Happily for me, Tetsuya’s does not even rate half a mention as a foodie’s mecca in my book. Overpriced and overrated. There! I’ve said it. Shock horror. But, for every Vue de Monde, there’s our Marque, there’s Claude’s, there’s Guillaume at Bennelong. Not to mention Quay, Rockpool, Becasse, Balzac, Pier and Est. and a whole host of others. And, my dears; I would not boast about a restaurant that wants to emulate its super Michelin starred counterparts in Europe, but can’t even get its name grammatically correct! And this despite it having been pointed out to Shannon squillions of times. No, being stubborn is not clever, its not being ‘rebellious’, its just silly. Oh, he can cook, no doubt about it, but so can dozens of others. Mr Wickens at Interlude and Andrew MacConnell would get my vote in Melbourne. As for the person who’s boasting about ‘prestige imports’ - well, exactly. They’re imports. And where’s Rockpool from? Guillaume? You’re also not exactly getting Nobu himself at the stoves. Franchised restaurants remain precisely that. Its also you who were so excited about Longrain opening in Melbourne. The owner of your Sakura (Flinders Lane) wondered why there are practically no sushi ‘trains’ in Melbourne. Oh, sorry. Silly me. Of course, its because Melbourne is soooooooo European, whereas Sydney is merely full of Asians, to paraphrase another one of your erudite entries. How cosmopolitan of you. Personally, I am just happy and thankful that my friends and I enjoy ourselves immensely each time we visit each other; and are mature enough to understand that the 2 cities are different and we love them for what they each have to offer …
June 17th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Alls I got to say is (Almost the same wage level, but a hell of a lot cheaper living)
More disposable income to enjoy life.
June 19th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
Another one to add to the list of Syd vs Melb.
Annual rainfall in Sydney 1107 mm
Annual rainfall in Melbourne 655 mm
Sydney has the Opera House, Melbourne has the Opera. i.e. Sydney is all show, Melbourne is all substance.
I’ve lived in both cities and as far as restaurants and bars go (because that is what this thread is about, not beaches) Melbourne wins hands down.
If you want beautiful, uncrowded beaches with crystal clear water, go to Perth.
July 3rd, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Ok, listen.
I am a Sydneysider and (although this is obvious) I prefer Sydney COMPLETELY over Melbourne. (Note: I have been to Melbourne plenty of times). Firstly, how can all you people live in Melbourne! I swear, it as 4 seasons in one day! It is always overcast and cold in winter and in summer it is unbearably hot! Sydney has lovely weather, yes it may get more rain, but that doesn’t mean its 4 degrees every time it rains. Secondly, Sydney has so many more things to do! Melbourne is dead, the CBD is so small, the only positive of Melbourne are its sexy little cafes, but that’s it! Trust me, come and live in Sydney for a month, you wont want to leave! Another point is that Sydney has so many different suburbs, all unique in their own ways. You have the Northern beaches, Lower North Shore, Greater Sydney, West and East. With Melbourne, it is just the same everywhere! Trust me, Sydney dominates the cities in Australia (why do you think it is listed up there with world cities like Paris, London and New York!)
July 6th, 2007 at 10:08 am
Nice to see the debate running as ht as usual guys. Just hearing the news of yet more chaos on the Harbour Bridge I think I know where I’d prefer to be and that’s Melbourne. It is simple really. The planners need to blow up the bloody bridge and build a proper big one that has enough capacity to keep going even if a train driver does fart.
July 6th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Lived in Sydney for a year, that was more than enough.
Here are a couple of choice quotes from the latest Good Living in the SMH. Yes, these words were written by a Sydney-sider, the rest of the article is worth a read too.
“Sydneysiders know the anxiety that arises when friends from south of the border come to visit. Where could you possibly take a Melburnian out for a drink in this town, accustomed as they are to an excess of impossibly hip little hole-in-the-wall wine bars, hidden laneway gems and converted terrace houses full of fabulous furniture and quirkily-dressed hipsters?”
“Even so, there’s no real heat in this debate yet. Melbourne still wins hands down. The richness of Melbourne’s scene should put Sydney to shame. Or rather, it should shame the NSW Government, which has drafted licensing laws with all the bureaucratic logic of soulless bores who hate grown-up fun.”
July 6th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
“how can all you people live in Melbourne! I swear, it as 4 seasons in one day! It is always overcast and cold in winter and in summer it is unbearably hot!”
wow, you’re original. did you come up with that all by yourself? personally i wouldnt mind being a tourist, visiting melbourne and experiencing all 4 of melbournes season in one day. saves time, doesnt it? to do other things and see more of melbournes beauty.
secondly, “cold in winter and in summer it is unbearably hot!” haha, really? coz its usually hot in winter and freezing in summer, isnt it?
“Trust me, Sydney dominates the cities in Australia (why do you think it is listed up there with world cities like Paris, London and New York!)”
i think you need to check that. melbourne came equal first with vancouver in the worlds most liveable cities. ;]
July 6th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
Giddyup, so true
July 9th, 2007 at 9:43 am
Just came back from a trip to Melbourne. People say Sydney is ugly but go up the top of Rialto Towers in Melbourne and that tells you it all. It tells you that Melbourne is a manufacturing and industrial city (similar to Manchester), the Yarra River IS very dirty (very brown), in the middle of their sporting village they have an ugly bunch of railway lines (cutting in between the MCG and Rod Laver Arena), as well as all the new ugly looking buildings going up which is now starting to congest the city (less open spaces). Melbourne is a master at blowing its own trumpet but you cannot ignore the fact that scenically it is very depressing. This is a fact. Building alleyways and trying to imitate London or New York will not change this.
July 9th, 2007 at 10:25 am
Sam, that’s a very flattering comparison. Manchester is a beuatiful city full of Victorian splendor and is a real cultural hotspot.
July 15th, 2007 at 9:06 pm
all that people that remember of sydney is its bridge and opera house and the crowded beach of bondi!! melbourne has so much more to offer!!!! yer mayb globaly people no sydny more, but melb has soo much more to offer!!! you can dig deeper and deeper to the city and find sooo much! and even in the suburbs!!
August 23rd, 2007 at 12:52 am
Oh please, bloody idiots of Sydney and Melbourne.
If you have to make a mockery of a city, that would be Brisbland for its blandness and the most despicable hole of them all, Canberra!
Although, I concede how I hate Sydney for being so selfish and forcing the nation to create such a hideous source of national embarrassment, Canberra!
August 23rd, 2007 at 7:41 pm
It is possible to find beauty in the most mundane of places. What you personally love is dependent on your disposition. Where you love to eat can be determined the same way, as is whether you consider yourself lucky or happy or both.
If everyone preferred the same city and the same restaurants we’d obviously be in strife, but the beauty is in the differences: just as when we love someone, we love their failings bundled in with their strengths; so it is with our cities, don’t you think?
September 1st, 2007 at 8:30 pm
Sydney Is Just Better In Everything
September 2nd, 2007 at 12:43 am
I’m told Sydney has much better concrete security fences and security clampdowns.
September 2nd, 2007 at 9:11 pm
Sydney=Supermodel, beautiful to look at but no substance
Melbourne=Stylish, cultured and confident.
And.. why should we bother about comparing the two when true Melburnians are busy comparing wheteher the North or the South of the Yarra is better personally, i’ll take the North anytime:)
September 3rd, 2007 at 10:56 am
Vive la difference!
And the bonus of this inevitable argument is that a healthy rivalry gives us the perfect excuse to enjoy schadenfreude. Keep it coming.
But back to the original thread, Melbourne is definitely good bang for buck when dining out, but even better used to be Tassie, with great produce at even cheaper prices. There are now some excellent venues there which would be on par with Melbourne & Sydney’s favourites, but prices a beginning to nudge past Melbourne’s.
September 3rd, 2007 at 11:21 am
And with global warming Tassie is just going to keep on getting better.
September 3rd, 2007 at 11:47 am
I’m moving to Greenland - global warming is going to make that place into the new Tassie.
September 18th, 2007 at 10:33 am
I hail from Tasmania.
In recent months (wanting to relocate) I spent alot of time in these two cities; to observe, explore and compare. I’ve visited both cities in the past, albeit when I was younger, but insufficient funds and lack of time meant I could never quite experience what both cities had to offer.
Sydney is beautiful. But that’s not enough. For me, Melbourne wins; it has culture, an atmosphere and an overall substance that has made me fall in love with the place.
I’m moving there in October.
October 28th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
Its funny. In the 19th century it was Melbourne that was the brassy upstart. Brisbane, Perth and Hobart are older and Adelaide is only a year younger than Melb. Anyway, I used to spend a lot of time in Sydney, and enjoyed the chaos, but generally things are usually just that little bit better in Melbourne. Also, this “global city” B.S has gone to Sydney’s head. It used to have a good natured larrikin streak (ie- Paul Keating - self educated and not pretentious, very admirable), but now is full of w–kers that think that the only measure of a person is ambition and money and weather they can afford to send their disgustingly spoilt brats on a school excursion to Europe or America. Sadly, some of that w–nkery is now washing off on Melbourne (especially, in places like Brighton - but they’re not real Melbournians). Really, though, on the whole Sydney has come to be over-run by such people since 1990, but Melbourne isn’t - yet. Once upon a time Sydney’s shallowness was just a light-hearted joke, now it is a reality. To illustrate the essential difference between Sydney and Melbourne, compare their outlook: Sydney looks to London, Paris, New York, Tokyo, the world centres of globalised, corporatised, franchised boredom. Sydney is obsessed with its place on this totem pole (the bottom, too bad!). Pretentious, ignorant and so, so predictable. Indeed for Sydney, Australia starts at Bondi and ends in the Blue Mountains. By contrast, not only are Melbournians proud of the rest of Australia, they look out to the World!
December 17th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
lets see
negatives positives
sydney = over crowded
roads r small and shit hot chicx
crocroches in blaktown mad clubs
tooo humid and hot good beaches
disorganised
rude people
old train stations that needs work
wasted lands and dumping places
too expensive
Melbourne = stylish
cool weather,
vibrant,
classy,
good roads
nice people
and therez no negatives, and only thing sydney got going
for is booring oprah house and habour bridge, thats all it will ever remebered for loolz,, after staying there for a week, i missed melbourne soo much, sorry if i offended anyone, but thats the trueth. peace out
December 18th, 2007 at 7:20 am
oh my god!!! many things about this both cities…
i am spanish guy going to melbourne…i heard many people talking that is better, so..in a few days i wil tell you whats goin on about the two cities that everybody talks…
justttt the big jump
December 18th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
I have seen so many of these sydney versus melbourne things and never replied but maybe I should. I grew up in Sydney and moved to melbourne 5 years ago. I love Melbourne and have now bought a house, getting married to a Victorian etc. What I love about Melbourne is the food scene, the music scene and the pub scene. i spent years in Sydney goign to bars and nightclubs i hated but lovelovelove them in melbourne. Ditto for the food in Melbourne which I think is more accessible and more affordable - however Sydney is more beautiful and has a lot more natural beauty, and i really miss the beaches. Both cities have their advantages and I think I only hear this Melbourne vs Sydney people from melbourne people - Sydney love visiting Melbourne for the food and shopping. So get over it everyone and enjoy both cities for what they have to offer!
February 17th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
People please, you’re sight seeing in the wrong hemisphere, Oprah’s House is in LA…
March 9th, 2008 at 12:36 am
Long live Sydney vs Melbourne rivalry. I’d better say upfront that I am a Melbournian and got plenty of laughs out of this article just after the Comm Games.
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,18478017-5001021,00.html
Notable quotes were…
“The lights on the fish were so bright they even made the dark colours of the Yarra sparkle” - I guess that’s a compliment, cheers DT…
“How did it compare with Sydney’s internationally acclaimed opening to the 2000 Olympics? Not so well.” - weren’t they both choreographed by the same person? Correct me if I’m wrong…
“There were the inevitable fireworks (”inevitable”, nice touch for a city where the fireworks are never “inevitable”, overhyped and predictable), dazzling and blinding as always, spectacular moments of theatre, children and young people dancing, and pop singer Deltra Goodrem belting out a song (guess Nikki Webster would have been better, eh?).”
Alright, enough of that. I’ve gotta admit that I don’t know what that f***ing duck was all about. Plus, Darling Harbour is great and there’s more landmarks and less gangland killings in Sydney. But that’s it…
March 11th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Beezneez, I’m missing all those Gangland killings but I guess at least you can watch them on TV in Sydney
March 11th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Yep, Sydney is more well known overseas. My mate and I hung out with a Brazillian working tourist who stayed in Oz for about 6 months and told us a story about coming to Melbourne:
“Back in Brazil I had only heared of Sydney. When I got here to Melbourne I got on bus at airport and went to sleep. I woke up where I was getting off to stay and regretted ever coming here.”
“Soon I found out this wasn’t the city. It was Clayton!”
Not long after he moved to St Kilda and fell in love with Melbourne. He always commented on how “beeeautiful” it was and how much fun he was having. We all enjoyed March in St Kilda, the Grand Prix was on, the footy was just beginning and the weather really shows off what Melbourne can do meteorologically! We’d always have great times with people we meet, getting around town was easy by public transport and the international visitors attracted to our city were always praising the great city of Melbourne!
The culture down here poos all over Sydney’s (I’ve been there many times). I’ve never experienced that sort of atmosphere and adulation whilst in the harbour city. As the brazillian later told us about the Harbour Town, “Sydney is more beeeeautiful than Melbourne, but I like it here much better!”
As for the gangland killings, at least it made a kick-arse show ‘Underbelly’! Hmmmm, that’s a good point about living in Sydney though, you can watch it without having to download it. But then again, you can do that in Hobart!
Last, but not least, is the superiority of our sporting culture. Sydney will NEVER be able to better Melbourne at that, just as Melbourne can never take the title of ‘Australia’s First City”. The reason: AFL! I cannot understand how Sydneysiders (and Brisbanites) can’t embrace it. I suppose Sydneysiders can’t stand the notion of loving something that’s Melbournian and Queenslanders love to kick the crap out of NSW at something, but other than that it baffles me! AFL followers are passionate about it and this make it easier for us to embrace other sports (I CAN watch lawn bowls at 2 AM!). Also, the very first Cricket Test AND One-Day International was held at the MCG. Not just in Australia, but the WORLD!
Oh, and as for putting in a reference to tastebuds, as this article was food related, VB is the nectar of the gods, Toohey’s is dick juice!
March 20th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Ummm this is funny but I’ll have a go!… there is no LA (Sydney) come Paris (Melbourne) thing in Australia. I’ve lived in both Sydney (Bronte) and Melbourne (St Kilda), San Francisco 7 years (Twin Peaks) and London (Notting Hill) for 2years. I know Paris and New York well.
Yes Sydney has dreadful roads due to it being the oldest city in Australia with many of the main streets being there from the late 1700s as a colony and Melbourne has great city roads and freeways due to the fact that people traveled south and built a planned city on a grid (like LA) predominantly built from the Victorian era.
Unfortunately for Sydney its rapid building during the 50-80 demolished a lot of its Victorian past in the CBD but many of the grand old buildings still exist but are lost in the crowd of more famous modern towers. Macquarie street st has some wonderful architecture some dating back to the 1817. St Mary’s is from the Victorian era and is the largest gothic style stone cathedral in Australia. Most off the inner ring suburbs are Victorian. The Rocks area is older (Colonial) and full off little alleyways and looks similar to Salamanca in Hobart but a lot larger.
Melbourne’s Victorian buildings are far more visible as the city is spread out more… I love the avenues St Kilda road etc. Flinders street station is also famous and is in a prominate position in the city… I have spent many a day sitting on the steps waiting for friends as a meeting place. But unbeknown to many Sydney’s original Central station and oval driveway still exists it has a huge internal arched area similar to grand central and Victoria station in London…. The stone clock tower was once visible all over the city but blocked out now. Its a beautiful Victorian building. The harbor and 1930’s bridge, and opera house made void all the other virtues and many people don’t notice its there.
As far as fashion Sydney is more casual… And Fashion and fashion week is in Melbourne but many off the designers that represent the fashion industry in Australia live in Sydney…. So as you see Sydney and Melbourne are not so different.
March 27th, 2008 at 12:17 am
I notice that Sydney has more restaurants that make top gourmet lists than Melbourne. Well done to Sydney, that would have been very unlikely in decades past. However, Sydneysiders who think that Sydney has become the nations food city might be getting ahead of themselves. A food city is not about having a handful of fancy restaurants for the rich, it’s about having a grass roots culture that involves the masses. I believe this is still something Melbourne does better and not just with food, it’s the same with many things. One reason for this is Sydney has the most polarized wealth and Melbourne has the most centralized wealth in the country. This means that in Melbourne more people have more disposable income to spend and that means larger numbers of people getting involved. To make matters worse, the cost of living is also higher in Sydney.
Ah Sydney, beautiful one day, humbled the next.
I do like Sydney but just don’t call Melbourne bleak unless you are prepared to call London, Paris and New York bleak as well. Surely Melbourne has better weather than these 3 Super Cities?
As for the “four seasons in one day” jibe. I’ve never really understood that. I know Melbourne’s weather can be “changeable” but most days finish much as they started.
What happens in Sydney? Does the weather only change on the stroke of midnight? If it is raining in the morning does that mean it will rain all day?
The worst thing about Melbourne’s weather is that Melbourne is in Australia and doesn’t compare well by Australian standards and expectations. By global standards Melbourne’s weather is no reason for ridicule, in fact many foreigners prefer it to places further north. But of course a “cultured” person from a “global city” would know this already.
March 27th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
I don’t understand lolol… Ah Sydney, beautiful one day, humbled the next. Melbourne… dry 16C one day then dry 40c the next…. with a scattering of damp moist grey air somewhere between. Hell finding a backroom latte sounds great!
March 27th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
Thanks Matt, I recognize Melbourne’s weather can be changeable but you are trying to make a point with a somewhat extreme exception there. Or did you make that one up? You could have thrown in a few more variables while you were at it. Either way it’s not very objective.
I can tell you honestly Matt. Without paying attention to forecasts, I get dressed in the morning according to how it is outside and I almost never find myself inappropriately dressed later in the day. That would be quite a feat in a place that has four seasons in one day.
By the way Matt, what are you drinking? Any good?
March 31st, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Not being very objective is the whole point, there is no point to this forum! We all like what we like and thats why we live in the cities we do!!! Australians move around a lot! Like our accents which are much the same all over the country…. An urban/city accent, a country accent… and maybe an outback accent which is the same but slower….. We all expect a good latte… know where to get them in ours cities… know were all the cheap eats are etc etc… unless you can afford the best. Some like the differnces in our cities (me) and some doen’t… I live in Sydney now because I like the beach and convenience of the city…. thats about it.. but I love walking around Melbourne and its gardens. I am having a bit of a game on this since finding this sight. I am sure most of our international guests arn’t interested in the argument.
April 1st, 2008 at 9:39 am
Matt you may live in Sydney cause you like it but most people live where their job takes them or where their families are and then find what they like/dislike according to their nature.
It’s really very personal
Having said that I love visiting Sydney but living in Melbourne
C’airn the Saints
April 1st, 2008 at 11:07 am
Your right Elliot!!
April 5th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
These forums are pointless. And why do people argue as if their opinions are facts?
Melbourne is not better than Sydney - nor is Sydney better than Melbourne.These are YOUR opinions, which many will agree with & others will not. Time to grow up.
BTW darkhawk, I personaly cannot stand AFL.
April 8th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
These forums aren’t pointless! Its an expression of passion and a good laugh. Stuff sitting on the fence (unless you like pointy bits up your bottom like “Mardi Gras” Sydney!). I love my city and when it gets ignored and/or misrepresented by Sydney-centric “national” news bulletins we feel like we have to defend ourselves or at least give our voice.
Oh, and saying these forums are just our opinions is like pointing out that the person you’re talking to has a different name to yours. THANKS FOR THE INFO, CAPTAIN OBVIOUS! If I went to forums for facts, statistics and truth I’d might as well just donate my brain to medical science cos I definately won’t be using it anytime soon!
I’m not writing this stuff thinking anyone really gives a s#$* about what I have to say (unless they totally agree with me), I’m just having a laugh. If I do get up someone’s nose with something I’ve written then a) I have a good point and they don’t like it, or b) they can’t think for themselves.
This rivalry is all in good fun, it’s a part of our cities’ heritage and has shaped our country. The only bad thing to come out of it was Canberra. Sydney had a sook about the capital being in Melbourne if we federated, so wouldn’t vote YES unless it was in the middle of NSW. Good one guys, you ended up with an arse-hole on you map! Hahaha!
I suppose it was good for Melbourne. Have you seen the flies in Canberra? Watch any news report from there and you see them hanging around the mouths of polititians, attracted to all the crap they speak! NOW THAT’S A BONIFIDE FACT!
GO HAWKS!!!!!
April 8th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
darkhawk, Love the hawks, especially the chance to see Jeff’s hair in person.
April 9th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
I have a suggestion for Sydney: Change the “Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras” to “Hot Lesbian Mardi Gras”. I’d go to that!
I don’t know why there has to be a celebration of people who like to put their privates in the wrong hole. Big f%^$ing deal!
I rock cos I’m a Melbournian!
April 17th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
I grew up in Sydney, and have lived in Melbourne for the last 5 years. There is one simple huge difference which no one seems to talk about. It is summed up in one word: NATURE ! If you are interested in Australian nature, Sydney has a “great outdoors”; Melbourne does not. Sydney is surrounded by beautiful national parks, right on its doorstep, offering superb bushwalking and wildlife-watching, especially the fantastic native flowers and birdlife. To reach any decent national park from Melbourne, you would need to drive at least 3 hours from the city centre. All this beautiful nature overflows into the Sydney suburbs, which are much lusher due to Sydney’s higher rainfall. Melbourne’s dry suburbs and parks offer mostly European trees and a few introduced birds.
Sydney has 3 major estuarine systems (Pittwater, Sydney Harbour, Port Hacking) giving it a stunning scenic coastline, and offering fantastic fishing, snorkelling, scuba diving, and boating. Of course the real surf beaches add to the nature experience of Sydney. None of this can be found in Melbourne.
So, after you have had your fill of all the fantastic Melbourne restaurants & cafes, and all the totally man-made entertainment that Melbourne is so proud of, where do you go on a sunny day for a little nature soul food? Where can you escape to in less than an hour where unspoilt natural beauty is free? Nowhere.
If you are not interested in nature, then Melbourne has everything you could ever want in a city. I am interested in nature, so I feel trapped in Melbourne.
April 17th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
I assume that herring has just headed west of the city. A couple of folds in the map and brown grassland. Yep, pretty uninspiring!
I live in Melbourne’s eastern suburbs and it takes me no time at all to get to the Dandenong Ranges. Head out further and you’ll find the Yarra Valley. Not much further than that is the Black Spur, the most beautiful, lush bush you’ll ever see. Heading north from where I live you will find Warrandyte, all the natural beauty you could want.
I’m not saying that Sydney doesn’t have great natural beauty, Ku-Rang-Gai National park is quite stunning, and of course, the beaches are beautiul, but you can’t say that Melbourne can’t boast natural beauty equal to that of Sydney’s if you haven’t taken the small amount of time to look for these places.
Another place you can find natural beauty is at the MCG when Lance Franklin gets near the ball! BUDDYYYY!!!
I’m naturally beautiful cos I’m a Melbournian!
April 18th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Yes I have been to the places you mention. Still no comparison.
1. Dandenong Ranges National Park was only created in 1987 - too late to be unspoilt.
From http://www.australiannationalparks.com:
“In 1987 the areas of Sherbrooke Forest, Doongalla Reserve and Ferntree Gully were combined to form Dandenong Ranges National Park. Originally used by the Bunurong and Woewurrong Aboriginal tribes, the Ranges became an important source of timber for early Melbourne and much of the forest was cleared. Farming became established late last century as roads and railways were built. The plant communities in the park are remnants of the original vegetation that has receded over the last 150 years with the rapid growth of Melbourne’s suburbs.”
2. Yarra Valley is just vineyards & farms. Hardly unspoilt nature.
3. Blacks Spur. Nice, but a very small area.
4. Warrandyte is not a national park, and is just a small area of remnant forest surrounded by suburban landscape.
5. Thankfully, I’ve never heard of a Lance Franklin.
April 21st, 2008 at 4:44 am
Some people read these blogs and say they are pointless and the Sydney, Melbourne rivalry is stupid.
I don’t believe the rivalry between Sydney and Melbourne is stupid and I don’t believe discussion on it is pointless. Don’t we live in a world of competition and doesn’t competition encourage people to try harder and achieve more? Like most things, it’s how it’s done that is important. The reality is the two cities do compete with each other and often with other cities as well. So why deny it?
Should we not take an interest in city we live in? People discuss the intricate details of football for hours and what difference does that make? Others spend hours reading gossip magazines about what “Super Mega Star” went outside with a stain on their top or had a hair out of place, but that’s ok.
An objective debate about the pros and cons of each city can be an opportunity to highlight problems and learn from each others successes. We can also learn from the experiences of cities overseas.
That’s not to say I don’t think any of it is stupid.
I’m not a fan of comments that sound like they came from the high school smart-arse weather they’re aimed at Melbourne or Sydney. They’re embarrassing and annoying.
Whether its done in fun or more seriously it should be kept real, there should always be mutual respect given to each city.
I have no problem with someone adding a little tongue in cheek for fun but I do get tired of hearing the same old clichés that are often quite false or exaggerated beyond reason.
I also don’t believe the rivalry only exists in Melbourne, as some people suggest. I don’t know if there are more people here or there who get involved but I do know there is traffic flowing in both directions. Canberra wouldn’t exist if Sydney didn’t care about Melbourne?
One more thing, I’ve also seen comments by people who say what Sydney or Melbourne have is nothing compared to what is in Europe and so we should keep quiet. It is true that by foreign standards some things in Australia aren’t a big deal, but how do you make something better without taking an interest and being enthusiastic. Do these people think the marvels of Europe just appeared? No… People made it happen, often by trying to outdo the people over the hill or across the water. They all started with something small and built upon it.
April 22nd, 2008 at 2:50 am
As an American pondering a move to Melbourne, I’ve enjoyed these posts. My lovely wife is a Melbourne native with family there, so that’s where we’re headed, probably next year.
I have to admit, I’m curious about Sydney, having never visited. It does boast a bigger economy, warmer weather and is arguably prettier than Melbourne. But the measurable downsides of Sydney seem to be heavier traffic, poorer train transport, and higher living costs.
There aren’t insignificant. As adults spend most of their lives at the office or home, these seem to make Melbourne more attractive. They would suggest more house for your money and a less stressful commute. These are benefits you can appreciate every day.
Sydney’s harbor bridge and opera house sound beautiful. But unless you can afford to live in view of them, how great an asset are they? If the most frequent glimpse comes while sitting behind the wheel of a car in traffic, I think their allure would pale.
As for culture, dining, sports and the arts, Melbourne appears to have the lead.
On weather, Sydney seems to have the edge. But as Alan astutely noted, Melbourne’s “poor” climate is judged by Australian standards — and Australia drew a very lucky hand as far as weather. By U.S. standards — and I’ve lived in San Francisco, Seattle, southwest Colorado, Washington DC and Hawaii — Melbourne’s climate seems very agreeable. It doesn’t get life-threateningly cold in winter. Summers can have a string of very hot days, but are not so warm as to be debilitating.
I did spend a few weeks in Melbourne in early March of 2005. This was supposed to be the tail end of summer. We had mostly hazy, overcast days with spots of rain and temperatures in the upper teens/low 20s Celsius (mid to high 60s, low 70s). There were a few beautiful sunny days, but yes the weather was unpredictable.
One other benefit to Melbourne — AFL! You can’t understand what a crazy, fun game this is for American spectators. The rules are quickly understandable — unlike cricket
— and the frequent turnovers and freewheeling style of play make for lots of drama.
Another thing, and you may know this, but we when we support a team over here, we say “I root for the Tigers.” My wife still finds this funny after several years in the U.S.
April 22nd, 2008 at 9:32 am
Well said Alan.
Your argument made sense (IMO), as opposed to Darkhawk’s, who seems to have a chip on his shoulder(also a bit homophobic).
The New York attitude to Sydney may be changing too. I notice that NY Mag.
Food & Wine included Sydney in its top 10 Food cities. Forbes ( another New Yorker?) did the same last year.
April 24th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
I love this rivalry! It makes Australia great!
I live in Melbourne and I can safely say I’d much prefer to live here than Sydney. What I love about Sydney is the big city-feel, the twisting and winding roads and the double decker trains, but it all comes at a cost. It’s more expensive in Sydney (housing, restaurants etc.), it’s gridlocked every day of the week and most people have to live out in the putrid western suburbs (from what I’ve heard… yes I’m biased). On the other hand, Melbourne IMO is a better place to live. Sure, we don’t have a pristine harbour or a beautiful bridge, but in Melbourne there are dozens of gigs on at pubs and jazz clubs every night, which I know is non-existent in Sydney. We have a proper sport which is a religion here (among many) and I fail to see how league could ever live up to footy. There is a strong arts scene which gives any city a true identity, unlike Sydney which boasts nothing but its restaurants and global-airport.
And anyway, how can you not resist JOHN SO!!!!
HE’S MY BRO!
Melbourne is the best major city to live(proudly supported by Geelong ,supplying us with cars and oil - ’till it runs out o’ course - and putting up with our arrogant street grid) and I’m very proud of it.
BLUES 08!
April 25th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
The Western Suburbs of Sydney are no worse than the western suburbs of Melbourne. Indeed, the western suburbs of Sydney are no worse than any suburb in Melbourne.
April 25th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
I’m not homophobic, I just like poofta jokes. I am a factory worker!
Oh, and Oben, Blues are looking a lot better this year, footy’s not the same without a good carlton side. Buddy and Fev battling out for the Coleman should be a beauty this year!
Watch out Cats, here come the HAWKS!!!!
April 25th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Hawks are lookin’ pretty hot!
Ducko: You’re right, the west of both Melbourne and Sydney suck! Also, south western ‘burbs of Sydney are similar to south east of Melb… so they’re pretty much on par when it comes to crap suburbs and bogan belts.
Sydney: Inner West, Melbourne: Inner East. Syd: Northen Beaches (affluent), Melb: Brighton Coast (affluent)… the list goes on.
The two are different yet the same.
April 28th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Melbourne people like to imagine the traffic in Sydney is worse, but they are wrong. It’s Melbourne where you get gridlock, simply because there is a grid! Sydney does not have a grid road pattern; there are many diagonals and curves, so the Sydney driver who knows his way around can always find alternative routes & short cuts. In Melbourne, there is no escape from the main roads and traffic lights. Also, you constantly get stuck behind trams. If you are only visiting Sydney, and you don’t know the tricks, of course you may encounter heavy traffic. But in Melbourne, there are no tricks to learn!
April 29th, 2008 at 1:14 am
Dear Herring,
From reading the forums I have gotten the impression that it is honest Sydney and Ex Sydney Siders that have mostly highlighted the traffic problems in Sydney. Most Melbournians who mention it are only repeating what they have heard.
I think you might be taking the term “Grid Lock” a bit too literally. Maybe you should think of it as “Traffic Jams” or “Road Congestion” in the case of Sydney.
As for Melbourne’s grid, across much of the city there are major roads approximately every 1 to 2 km’s running north/south and east/west. While this does mean traffic lights every 1 or 2 km’s the traffic does still move reasonably well in many areas during peak.
As for alternate routes in Melbourne, within each of the squares formed by the larger roads there are of course secondary roads and residential streets. Anyone who wants to can use these as “alternate routes” as I often have. Sometimes they work out better, sometimes they don’t but being a grid it is hard to lose your sense of direction, plus there is virtually no chance of finding yourself at the wrong end of a one way street.
Minor roads are also great when riding a bike, they are much safer and the air is cleaner too.
Personally, I don’t work 9 to 5 and one of the benefits is that I don’t have to face peak conditions on a daily basis but when I have it is usually acceptable where I have experienced it.
Just so we’re clear, I’m not saying traffic in Melbourne is good, no traffic is good, but going by what I read I doubt it is worse than Sydney. Just about everyone who is familiar with both cities seems to agree that Melbourne’s traffic is more tolerable.
I don’t believe trams are the problem you think they are. Only in the inner city are they concentrated and at that point it is more likely the traffic that is holding up the trams. As you move further from the city trams are more likely to travel on their own section of road and the majority of roads have no trams at all. Trams also take cars off the road by giving people and alternative to driving, thus reducing traffic. A large tram can carry nearly 300 people, that’s a lot of cars.
Busses do the same thing but not as well, plus I don’t like them much and polls have shown that car drivers have less respect for busses than trams.
If you don’t believe me then do a little research. You will find that Europe and even the U.S. (car capital of the world) are planning and building tram/light rail networks at a rate not seen since the early 20th century and all to try and ease traffic congestion. Maybe that is also why Sydney is experimenting with trams? Trust me, trams are cool and so will the planet be if we all use them.
I have one question… Being a Sydney driver who knows their way around, what alternate route do you use when you have to cross The Harbor or one of the other natural features of Sydney? Or do you have to join the queue for the bottle neck just like everyone else?
I hope you have found this informative, Alan.
April 29th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Try living in London if you want gridlock. Having spent four years in Sydney - most of the time in a cab trying to get over the bridge around 2.30pm - I reckon Melbourne traffic flows better.
April 29th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Well, I was not suggesting that Sydney traffic is better than Melbourne; just that there is little difference, depending of course on what part of these cities one does most of their driving. I must confess I lived on the north side of Sydney where traffic is better than some other areas. Now that I live in Melbourne, I spend 45 minutes twice a day on the Nepean Highway in extremely slow & heavy traffic; every bit as bad as crossing the Spit Bridge in Sydney. Don’t forget that Melbourne proudly boasts the fastest growth of any city in Australia, with 1500 new residents per week, so the situation is rapidly deteriorating.
Alan, I have a rhetorical qustion to match yours. If it is traffic which holds up trams, and not the other way around, why is it then that cars always frantically pile into the left lane behind a tram, awaiting the first opportunity to get past? Once past, does the tram stay on your tail, or disappear into the distance in your mirror? The difference with buses is that they PULL OVER to stop, so everyone gets past easily sooner or later.
April 29th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
And another thing: trams rquire special traffic light arrangements at many intersections, forcing traffic travelling in all directions to remain stopped at a red light for much longer. Buses do not require this.
April 30th, 2008 at 3:06 am
Herring, fair points, you have given me something to think about.
I thought your initial comment was regarding grid lock and that trams made it even worse?
Honestly, I don’t live where there many trams, I’m in the north east but I have had plenty of experience with them over the years.
I do agree with your first point that trams can be an additional inconvenience for drivers on the road and often once you get around them you tend to leave them behind, if you have a fairly clear road ahead.
I also believe that is focusing on particular situations and ignoring the big picture.
As I said in my last blog, in heavy traffic the trams are no slower than the cars and possibly faster. In moderate traffic they are more likely to slow you down as you have mentioned. In light traffic you will get around them soon enough as not to be an issue.
I also think the cars jostling to get around the trams might say as much about the patience of the drivers as it does about the trams. I’ve seen a lot of drivers do all kinds of desperate things only to go nowhere fast, without trams having anything to do with it.
Also, as Melbourne is a grid and there are many parallel roads, I have the option of using one of the many roads without a tram if I think it will work out better, (that would likely be over a longer distance, over a short distance a tram is unlikely to make much difference to me).
As for the traffic lights, yes some do have a special configuration for trams but I would not describe the sequence as much longer unless several trams were passing through at once.
You can not forget that like the cars in front of you, the trams have peopl