Anthony Bourdain doesn’t think much of Sydney but loves Melbourne. The New York Times restaurant critic Patricia Wells seems to agree that Melbourne’s Flower Drum is the best Chinese restaurant in the world (for its Peking duck at least).Now the LA Times food critic S. Irene Virbila, is wading in to the debate rating Sydney as one of the best places in the world to eat.The divides between the hometowns of the protagonists of this debate perhaps illustrates the cultural differences between Melbourne and Sydney. What Melbourne does best is intimate little underground joints. Melbourne is establishment with dark, smoke filled rooms. Typically you turn up a laneway, down another and up into an attic/down into basement. Coming from London I love this kind of stuff. As does Bourdain coming from NY. And I presume Wells likes this as she took a similar route down an alley and up some stairs to the Flower Drum. Or at least she really likes duck.In contrast, the LA Times lauds Sydney for being able to do what many restaurants in the world have failed to do: create great restaurants with even better views. Traditionally we’ve been suckered into enjoying the view and playing with the food rather than eating it.So here we have it in Sydney. Icebergs overlooking Bondi Beach together with Sean’s Panorama. Sailors Thai, Bill’s, the Book Kitchen, Longrain, Marque Restaurant, Billy Kwong, Pier, Fish Face, The Boathouse on Blackwattle Bay, Tetsuya’s.Neil Perry’s Rockpool failed to meet the list!Sure Sydney has good eating and we’ve enjoyed most of those joints. But Sydney is expensive. And Melbourne in affordable at most joints. When we rate restaurants there has to be a relationship between the quality of food and the affordability for the average (f—die) punter.For any American visiting Australia or Brit our food at the top end is very cheap despite the fact that the local dollar is overvalued. And that is why for them it is perhaps so good.But I live in Melbourne and when I have to spend my hard earned cash I know I’ll be looking for value or money. Well, most of the time anyway.
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Hurry up, I haven’t had a laugh in a while so I’m looking forward to your response!
Actually, while you’re at it research why the church says that God is schitzophrenic (the trinity), and how they got the word ‘petros’ (meaning rock) mixed up with ‘Peter’. Jesus is the “rock” mentioned in the bible, learn some ancient Greek and see for yourself!
I asked you to nominate one of your bigoted myths, not 4 of them.
Not hard to pick one out of four, this isn’t a quiz show. Or maybe you’re just stalling cos you can’t refute them without sounding like a blind follower with no evidence. You’ve had 3 days, now hurry up! I’m still waiting for a laugh…
Let’s make it easier for you, the Xmas day “myth” (I refuse to include Jesus’ name because it has nothing to do with him!). Shouldn’t take too long to figure out you don’t have an answer
Seriously, you were quick to call me a bigot and a liar but when it comes to refuting my FACTS you’re slower than a hungover monday! I’m sure you’re taking time to manipulate any research you’re doing or just want to hopefully slip under the radar and hope people forget.
Or maybe your spritual “leader” has advised you not to pursue this because doubt is dangerous to your faith (I’ve heard that one before). Doubt means you question what you believe and that is the only way to find the truth, in anything. I know I’ve been an antagonising, ruthless BASTARD, but in the end I suppose I’m really only trying to help you and anyone who cares to read this. I suppose it’s hard to want to believe someone who’s shouting at you, eh? But when an organisation that claims to represent God ignores the bible, commits vulgar acts “in His name” and invents ideas to keep people in line (like the concept of Hell), I feel like I should get mad!
Like I said, it’s not the followers I hate, it’s the church itself.
Darkhawk, you are so blind:
Yeah, of course there are some pretty wacky and conservative views and values of the Catholic leadership, but seriously: there are 1 billion people who see the good in its fundamental beliefs. Now don’t go saying that we’re all being brainwashed, that is absolute bullshit. I think if the Catholic church was as corrupt and evil as you make it out to be, then the billion strong crowd would have found out and revolted.
You are sensationalizing; post BEFORE you get pissed
Re: Melbourne VS Sydney [everyone], we all have our own opinions and we are all convinced we’re right, it’s never going to end. Lose the stupid stereotypes (no matter how easy and fun they are to point out OPERA HOUSE ASS LICKERS) and try to… wait a minute! No lets keep fighting!
So what you’re saying is that 1 billion people can’t be wrong? They can in a world of 6 billion! You know, in Noah’s day the whole world, bar 8, was wrong in not beliving him about the impending flood. Plus look at the music charts at the moment, the most popular stuff is utter crap!
As for what you were saying about the Catholic Church, there is good in it’s fundemental beliefs because it is founded upon the Bible. Unfortunately it’s teachings have been tainted with untruths and scare tactitcs designed to control. If you had a choice of three glasses to drink from; one of pure poison, one with 10% poison and 90% water (or beer, whatever you prefer!), and the third with just pure water, which would you choose? Bad news is you have the 2nd glass being promoted by a seemingly reputable source and, with anything in life, the people who buy into it will try to defend it if they got sucked in, mainly to convince themselves. Even now I’m pointing out the flaws but you and Ronk are doing your best to deny it (yet have put forward no evidence to refute it, just slander). I’ve had a go at people (not here) who believe in evolution, stating scientific fact and philisophical arguments that prove that it is impossible, but they are still unwilling to change their stance. They even deny that Evolution is a religion (it is a belief system, there is no proof that it happened!), so I’m not surprised that I’m meeting such resistance. I am a man of logic and reasoning and NEVER get caught up in sensationalization.
And just to let you know, most of my recent posts have been while I’m totally sober. As you can see the only one’s I have posted drunk lately were on the 22nd of August. Not that it matters anyway, I’m still 100% right!
Anyway Oben, on to another subject, I’m looking forward to the Blues vs Hawks game tomorrow night. Going with a Carlton mate so will be good to see both Buddy and Fev get the ton (as long as the Hawks win!). I do like the look of Carlton this year, hope 2009 is a better year, then my mate will stop complaining!
It is Sydney people that are “blind” if they think their city is better than Melbourne! Let the fight continue…
Born in Sydney, lived there for 20 years, moved to Canberra and lived there for 20 years, now living in Melbourne – have done for 6 years. I have visited Queensland on average once a year since I was a child for holidays (holidays dont really count – but I certainly love the place).
I will always love Sydney because I was born there. (that doesnt count either).
It is memories (good or bad) that create in your mind a picture of what it is that you like best. Life isnt about a city’s good or bad assets.
Cities are what they are because of the people who live in them (and yes, who Governs them). What I have are wonderful memories of all of these cities. I love the cameraderie and the fun things I’ve experienced in every city I’ve lived in or visited.
I just cannot believe what I am reading from my Aussie “mates”.
Darhawk, Ronk & Oben. Get a room. A chat room.
**YAWN**
What was your point, Chris? The rivalry between Melbourne and Sydney is a part of our heritage and in the end it’s just a bit of fun. It’s like two siblings, they may disagree with each other and it can get pretty heated, but at the end of the day they both still love each other deep down.
Competition breeds excellence…
Custardcrazy, you’re right. I’m finished with what I have to say and it’s up to the other two to work it out for themselves.
CAR’N THE HAWKS!
Hey, I’m through as well…
Speaking of Hawks, I was ready to run on the ground for Fevola’s 100th… Such dissapointment!
Yeah, I was there too and also disappointed for Fev. At least he’ll be remembered as the first guy to be stuck on 99, what a brilliant effort after he was goalless at half time! Now I’m looking forward to the finals, going to my first ever finals game this week.
The MCG is so much better than the SCG and ANZ stadium!
Custardcrazy, I only came here to discuss Sydney vs Melbourne. Only to have Darkawk launch into a tirade of stupid fundamentalist myths just because he was affronted that I made a passing mention of World Youth Day. I have no intention of wasting my time in a chatroom with an idiot like Darkhawk (who apparently belongs to one of the recently invented US fundamentalist sects, most likely the Jehovahs Witnesses). He would only drag me down to his level. But I did promise to refute here one of his bigoted myths.
Darkhawk, you say you’re certain of the truth of the myth of “the 25th December thing” or as you claimed “Constantine (the Roman Emperor) made his new ‘church’ by bastardising pure christianity with pagan beliefs (one tiny example, 25th December is the celebration of the Sun god’s birth, if being close to the northern winter solstice wasn’t enough of a clue) so that he could reinforce his rule over the empire.”
You do realise that Catholics realise full well that 25th December probably has no more than a 1 in 365 chance of being Christ’s actual birthday? The dates of Church festivals are not articles of faith, they are arbitrary dates chosen to celebrate particular beliefs, in this case the fact that Christ was born. For the history of how this date came to be chosen, see e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas
(Yeah I know don’t tell me, Wikipedia is yet another arm of the evil worldwide Vatican conspiracy to control the world and hide the truth).
And Emperor Constantine I had absolutely nothing to do with it, nor with any other aspect of Catholic belief or practice.
Btw although unlike his predecessors, he didn’t actually make Christianity illegal, he was no friend of the Catholic Church. He used military force to support the Arian heretics (who denied that Christ is really God) against the Catholics. And he himself didn’t become a Christian until he was on his deathbed, and even then he didn’t become a Catholic, but an Arian.
Custardcrazy, sorry about the interruption. I came here to talk about Sydney versus Melbourne, only to be swamped by a tsunami of bigoted fundamentalist myths from Darkhawk who apparently was mightily offended because I dared to mention in passing World Youth Day. His tirade suggests he belongs to one of the recently invented US fundamentalist sects, most likely the Jehovahs Witnesses judging from his fixation on Christmas and his opposition to science. (I wasn’t aware that fundamentalist sects promote drunkenness.) I have no intention of joining a chatroom with him, such idiots only drag others down to their level. But I did promise to refute here one of his myths.
Darkhawk, you claim you are certain that your myth of “the 25th December thing” is true, or as you put it:
“The whole organisation is just the Roman Empire with another name. Catholic means ‘universal’, which is what Constantine (the Roman Emperor) made his new ‘church’ by bastardising pure christianity with pagan beliefs (one tiny example, 25th December is the celebration of the Sun god’s birth, if being close to the northern winter solstice wasn’t enough of a clue) so that he could reinforce his rule over the empire.”
Catholics have always been well aware that 25th December has probably no more than a 1 in 365 chance of being the date Christ was born. Like most of the Church’s festival dates, it’s ARBITRARY. the point is WHAT is celebrated not getting the exact date right, which is unknown.
Look up e.g. the Wikipedia entry on “Christmas” to read the REAL history of how this particular date came to be chosen. The main reason being it is 9 months after Christ’s presumed date of death and date of conception, 25th March. (Yeah, yeah I know Wikipedia is part of the worldwide Vatican conspiracy to hide the truth, blah blah).
Emperor Constantine 1 certainly had nothing to do with it, nor with any other Catholic practice or doctrine. Although unlike his predecessors he allowed Christians to legally practice their religion, he was certainly no friend of the Catholic Church. He even used imperial armies to promote the Arian heretics (who denied Christ is really God) against the Catholics. He didn’t become a Christian until 25 years later when he was on his deathbed, and even then he didn’t become a Catholic, but an Arian.
Btw “Roman Catholic” was a term of abuse for Catholics invented by Anglicans in the 17th century. It has NO connection to the Roman Empire.
Btw2, the Catholic Church is certainly NOT “based on the Bible”. It could not possibly be, since the Catholic Church invented the Bible.
What did happen to your post? And what happenned to your “What happened to my comment?” post? Wierd. At least we saw that you got angrier after the first draft and relied more on personally attacking me than actual facts (Wiki is not a reliable source of information, anyone can edit it!).
You can believe that stuff, I don’t care anymore. Even though I would love to point out the glaring faults in your rebuttal, I declared this to be over and that’s how it should stay. Hope you enjoyed “wasting your time”! I will make it clear though that I don’t have any affilliation with any religious group and do love science. And I was NEVER offended, just amused. I was right when I called you a presumptuous prick!
BTW, who’s the bigot now (berating Jehovah’s Witnesses, a MINORITY with less than 10,000,000 worldwide)? Hypocrite!
I just LOLed so hard I shit my pants! Thanx a lot, Ronk!
Simple: I recovered it from the spam filter then I deleted the “what happened?”. The filter is turned up high and is sensitive to links.
I didn’t “berate” JWs nor “personally attack” you or anybody. I merely said that you seem to believe some of the JWs’ characteristic beliefs. If you don’t believe the Wiki article, read the original documents it references. If you are unable to point to any “glaring faults” in it, your assertion that they exist is totally empty. Wikipedia is by no means a Catholic-friendly source, that’s why I chose it. I won’t give you any more links as this site apparently doesn’t like them.
And while you’re at it you might try to explain, if as you claim, Constantine I was so friendly to the Catholic Church (apparently you are even claiming that he FOUNDED it!) why does the Greek Orthodox Church, which broke away from the Catholic Church centuries ago, call Constantine a saint, but the Catholics do not?
His mother was a Catholic but he definitely was not.
You are a tool, stop wasting everyone’s time. This discussion is over, not because I concede (in fact I think I have more logical and factual arguments, and a better sense of humour. So really, I win!), but because we have been asked to, and I agreed.
END OF DISCUSSION, DEAL WITH IT!
Damn I love Melbourne, I went to the Hawks Doggies game tonight and the city is such a beautiful place. The MCG is definately a World Wonder, especially with Buddy tearing up the turf! Perfect footy weather, too.
why compare both cities? they are totally different!!!!
I’ve lived in melbourne for 5yrs and yes its quite a nice city with easy access to public transport which surpasses sydney.
people you all have to remember that sydney is the oldest city in OZ and traffic is congestive at times but thats the big smoke for you.
Melbourne people i dont know why you have this weird attitude towards sydney that you think you’re better than her??? i just dont get it??? why the hostilities???
Sydney has its good and bad points and the same goes to melb. melbournians i reckon worry too much about themselves all the time, its not all about coffee shops and little alley ways.
I’ve lived in sydney for 10yrs, loved the place and the people are helpful and nice. I think the only rude people that i’ve encountered in sydney are people from melbourne LOL.
If you dont like sydney dont go there no one asked you to go there in the first place.
it seems like melbourne people have the same attitude as the americans, arrogant, self conceived and selfish.
all you think about is yourselves and its all about “me me me”, your too closed up in your own state that you dont know what the fuck is going around oz and the world these days.
why are melburnians too worried if another city is going to over take them? sounds like paranoia to me? i think everyone in victoria has an inferior complex with this whole rivalry thing.
wow you had the 1956 olympic games big woooooooooooooooooop that was back in the 50′s and you had the 2006 commonwealth games yeeeah big hoorah (sarcasm) its only a poor mans games thats for sure.
4 seasons in one day???? what the fuck over???? are you serious???? id rather be on a real beach anyday than what melbourne call the beach located in the city HAHA its a bay you morons.
and as for your european feel in your city …. theres already a europe and its located in the northern hemisphere.
Jan is Melbourne and Marcia is Sydney …..god damn it marcia marcia marcia LOL.
Read the arcticle below … so true about melbourne “self indulgent” cunts.
=================================================
MELBOURNE opened its heart to the world last night in a passionate display of pageantry, colour and spectacle that gave the republican movement a jolt — Dame Kiri Te Kanawa sang Happy Birthday to the Queen and led a chorus of God Save The Queen.
The capacity MCG crowd of more than 80,000 people for the opening of the 18th Commonwealth Games applauded rapturously as Dame Kiri’s last notes died around the darkened stadium.
An estimated one billion TV viewers around the world watched the ceremony that organisers said was designed to reflect Victoria’s vibrancy, versatility and sporting prowess.
The opening, highlighted by a flying tram that swept in over the high stadium grandstand, was staged simultaneously at the MCG and along the Yarra River outside the ground.
Huge, brightly illuminated floats, each one named after Australian fish and representing the 71 countries competing at the Games, sailed leisurely along the river while a surf boat carried the Queen’s baton on the final leg of its long journey to Melbourne.
The lights on the fish were so bright they even made the dark colours of the Yarra sparkle. There were the inevitable fireworks, dazzling and blinding as always, spectacular moments of theatre, children and young people dancing, and pop singer Deltra Goodrem belting out a song.
There was also the inevitable question.
How did it compare with Sydney’s internationally acclaimed opening to the 2000 Olympics? Not so well.
Sydney was spectacular and simple. It dressed itself in easily recognisable motifs, both here and overseas, of riders in Driza Bones on horseback and local customs. It was egalitarian and pulsed with jingoistic emotion.
Melbourne’s effort was self-indulgent, more Victorian-centric and sometimes absolutely unfathomable.
There were planes made of material flying on wires and the theme seemed to be a small boy wandering lost through this kaleidoscope with a pet duck.
At one stage a poem was recited that ended with: “Little duck, I wish you luck.”
Later, in a spurt of steam, the duck turned into a woman and she flew away on wires.
What people in other countries made of giant flying koalas riding what looked like a giant thong has yet to be discovered. There were a couple of ditzy moments as well, including tram conductors in bright green uniforms playing tubas and trumpets.
Commonwealth Games and Olympic gold medalist Cathy Freeman who passed the baton to champion runner Ron Clarke, then gold medalist Marjorie Jackson-Nelson, now Governor of South Australia, who handed it to the final runner John Landy.
It was Melbourne’s night and they revelled in the champagne of the celebration.
It’s just a pity the opening ceremony did not come with interpretation for the rest of the world.
Sydney VS Melbourne – friendly rivalry
Sydneysiders have quipped that ‘the only good thing to come out of Melbourne is the Hume Highway’, not realising that the same joke works in Melbourne as the highway links both cities. There has always been a friendly rivalry between the two cities, probably because Melbourne sucks. See how easy it falls from a Sydneysider? It probably originated because Melbourne had a ‘legitimate’ birth whereas Sydney was, if you’ll excuse the French, a bâtarde of a town, due to its convict origins.
Melbourne has always had a certain dignity and conservatism that Sydney has lacked, which is only something to be proud of if you have it. In the late 19th century both cities competed for national capital status with the southern capital billing itself as ‘Marvellous Melbourne’. This was parodied to ‘Marvellous Smellbourne’ thanks to the open sewers in the 1890s. Sydney would have undoubtedly been peeved when Melbourne won the 1956 Olympic Games and became the country’s sporting capital.
Of course, Sydney got her own back with the 2000 Games. And Sydney would have nodded knowingly in 1959 when On the Beach was being filmed in Melbourne and Ava Gardner reputedly remarked ‘It’s a story about the end of the world, and Melbourne sure is the right place to film it’. I think, however, that says more about Ava than Melbourne.
In a game of cards, Melbourne seems to have the trump cards while Sydney’s bluffing.
Sydney leads with Darling Harbour. Trumped by Southgate. Star City Casino? Trumped by Crown Casino. Leichhardt for Italian food? Trumped by Lygon Street. Chinatown? Trumped by Little Bourke Street. The Golden Slipper? Trumped by the Melbourne Cup. Centrepoint Tower? Trumped by the Rialto. The SCG? No, the MCG takes that one. Central Railway? Not a patch on Flinders Street Station. Haymarket? Would be lost in the Victoria Markets. Live theatre and pub comedy? Melbourne takes another one.
But wait, there’s a sly grin on Sydney’s face. In a sweeping gesture, she lays down the rest of her cards in a row…
The Harbour…
The Bridge…
The Opera House…
The National Parks…
The Rocks…
New Years Eve Fireworks…
The Beaches…
Melbourne passes. Sorry, she can’t take a trick. See, there’s that Sydneysider in me again.
Incidentally, Melbourne is named after Lord Melbourne, who was Queen Victoria’s first Prime Minister and a wise counsel in guiding the teenage queen through the early years of her reign. I mention this only to segue to a bit of Victorian trivia. Following Victoria’s coronation in 1838, the first act of the newly anointed queen, on her return to Buckingham Palace, was to bathe her dog.
Sydney: global city for the world of events
Sydney is one of the world’s most appealing and culturally-diverse destinations.
The city was named the best city brand in the world in the 2006 edition of the Anholt City Brands index ahead of London, Paris, Rome, New York, Washington DC, San Francisco, Melbourne, Barcelona and Geneva.
Sydney shared ninth place with Bern out of 215 cities in the 2006 Worldwide Quality of Living survey compiled by Mercer Human Resource Consulting. It ranked well above other Asia Pacific cities and ahead of all Australian capital cities.
Sydney is Australia’s lifestyle and business capital and dominates in film, fashion, music, broadcasting, publishing, games, interactive media, software development, advertising and industrial and virtual design.
Sydney has world famous tourism attractions and a diverse variety of restaurants, shops and fashion houses, urban and national parks, galleries, museums, cultural centres and beaches.
Sydney’s world class restaurant scene is enjoying growing international recognition and has become a tourist attraction in its own right.
MELBOURNE is nice but Sydney is the best, New South Wales Premier Morris Iemma has said as he announced that Sydney had been voted the world’s best city in an international survey.
It is the second year in a row 2008 Sydney has been named the world’s best city by the Anholt City Brands Index, followed this time by London, Paris, Rome and New York.
Melbourne, the next best Australian city, ranked sixth.
The index surveyed more than 10,300 perceptions of the cultural, political, commercial and human assets, investment potential and tourist appeal of 40 cities across the world.
Mr Iemma was asked today what Sydney could do to help Melbourne improve its ranking.
“We don’t want to help Melbourne, at all,” Mr Iemma said.
“Melbourne is a nice place but Sydney is the best – simply the best.
“If you are not living in Sydney you are simply camping out, as Paul (former prime minister Paul Keating) said.”
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September 5, 2007
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* Readers’ guide
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* New South Wales
* Australia
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Sydney might seem more like a security fortress than an ideal holiday destination as APEC rolls into town, but travellers have voted it the best city in the world.
A survey of 30,000 readers of luxury travel bible Conde Nast Traveller put Sydney in first spot for favourite overseas city, ahead of Paris, New York and Rome.
Australia ranked fourth in the countries category behind India, Italy and Thailand, while the Great Barrier Reef was named the 10th best island destination in the world.
Sydney, which ranked third in last year’s survey, impressed travellers for being the most clean and user-friendly city as well as having the best restaurants.
“I’m delighted that readers of Conde Nast Traveller voted Sydney their favourite overseas city,” Conde Nast Traveller editor Sarah Miller said.
“They think that it is fantastic for its friendly people but they really adore the varied cuisines on offer, with the city scoring the highest for food.
“As somebody who loves Sydney, I thoroughly endorse the readers’ choice.”
Ms Miller said while Australia had slipped one place in the countries category in this year’s survey – the 10th run by the magazine – it still had plenty of appeal for tourists.
“A past winner, Australia scored consistently highly in all categories but coming out well on top is the scenery and the friendly people,” she said.
“I must say Australia is one of the best destinations I’ve ever been to, so I thoroughly agree with the readers.”
The Great Barrier Reef made its debut appearance in the favourite islands category, with the Maldives and Greek Islands claiming the top two spots.
When it came to rating the best spots to lay your head after a hard day’s travelling across Australia and the South Pacific, Hobart’s Henry Jones Art Hotel came out on top.
It was followed by the Great Barrier Reef’s Angsana Resort & Spa, Longitude 131 at Uluru in the Northern Territory, Lilianfels in the NSW Blue Mountains and Huka Lodge in Taupo, New Zealand.
The magazine’s readers voted Sydney Airport as the world’s seventh best, with Hong Kong International in first place ahead of Changi in Singapore and Dubai International.
Australia’s national carrier Qantas also nudged into seventh place for favourite long-haul airline
World’s Best Cities Ranked by Travellers
Sydney is Australia’s number one tourist destination. Around 9.7 million international travellers visited Sydney in 2007, contributing $5 billion to the local economy. Sydney is consistently ranked as the leading international destination by readers of the world’s major travel publications.
The 2007 Readers’ Choice Awards published by the respected Condé Nast Traveler magazine, ranked Sydney as the world’s best city for travellers for a record 12th time. Sydney was rated excellent or very good by 87.8% of respondents for friendliness, ambience, culture and attractions, restaurants, lodging, and shopping. Sydney achieved category high scores for ambience and friendliness, with Condé Nast Traveler remarking that “no other city so seamlessly blends sophistication with a laid-back devotion to the good life.”
Sydney’s restaurants continue to make their mark on the world culinary stage, and some have become tourist attractions in their own right. In the UK-based Restaurant Magazine 2008 World’s Best Restaurants Awards, two Sydney restaurants were listed in the top 50, Tetsuya’s (ranked ninth) and Rockpool (ranked 48th).
World’s Best Cities Ranked by Travellers, 2007 (1)
City/Country Score (2)
Sydney, Australia 87.8
San Francisco, United States 85.5
Florence, Italy 84.8
Cape Town, South Africa 83.3
Rome, Italy 82.8
Bangkok, Thailand 82.6
New York City, United States 82.4
Buenos Aires, Argentina 82.3
Charleston, United States 82.1
Damascus, Syria 82.1
Vancouver, Canada 81.9
Santa Fe, United States 81.3
Chicago, United States 81.2
Venice, Italy 81.1
Hong Kong 80.9
Paris, France 80.6
Victoria, B.C., Canada 80.3
Chiang Mai, Thailand 80.0
Melbourne, Australia 78.7
Footnotes:
1: Based on a survey of Conde Nast Traveller Magazine subscribers.
2: Each city was rated as excellent, very good, good, fair, or poor on six criteria: ambience, friendliness, culture/sites, restaurants, lodging and shopping. Criterion scores, which represent the percentage of respondents rating a candidate as excellent or very good, were averaged to determine the final score; e.g. Sydney’s 87.8 is the average of its scores across the six criteria.
Source: Readers’ Choice Awards 2007, Conde Nast Traveller Magazine.
WOW! A lot of info there in such a short space of time. Probably a better idea to just leave links instead of ‘copy’ then ‘paste’ (Wiki seems a bit familiar, doesn’t it Kate?).
“True fact by international standards”, someone tried using this poll on the “Melbourne is better than Sydney” Facebook group and this is what I told him (you?): “Sydney Morning Herald, eh? Nice way to glorify an insignificant poll. Also the article mentioned that one of Sydney’s great attributes was that you were close (by world terms) to Melbourne and the Yarra Valley.” Yes the article you put above was from the Sydney Morning Herald and it’s based on the opinions of magazine subscribers, hardly a big deal at all!
The Anholt City Brand Index thing you mentioned, OK, I’ll give you guys that one, but it is only one of many surveys done and the only one that puts Sydney ahead of Melbourne as far as I can remember. 1/10 ain’t bad, eh? And where’s Iemma now?
Keep rubbishing the Commonwealth Games, it was never supposed to equal or better the Olympics and I’m sure the budget wasn’t as big, either.
Ctrl C, Ctrl V Ctrl C, Ctrl V Ctrl C, Ctrl V Ctrl C, Ctrl V Ctrl C, Ctrl V Ctrl C, Ctrl V Ctrl C, Ctrl V Ctrl C, Ctrl V Ctrl C, Ctrl V Ctrl C, Ctrl V Ctrl C, Ctrl V Ctrl C, Ctrl V. Easy plagiarism!
Plagiarism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For other uses, see Plagiarism (disambiguation).
Plagiarism is the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one’s own original work.
Notice how I didn’t leave out the souce of this information?
Here are my two bits.
Sydney the place to visit.
Melbourne the place to live
and your government isnt corrupt???? sheeesh is that the drunken talk thats coming out off you again darkhawk??? maybe if you stop drinking VB (vaginal backwash) then you’ll probably be abit more sober to know whats going around you.
just revving you up pal LOL.
I’ve actually been drinking Fosters and Mercury Dry’s lately. Tassie grog is the best because of the water! But I haven’t been drinking today (why is it such an issue? I’m more coherant than most on here LOL).
It is good to finally see a Sydneysider revving up us Mexicans (you Yank bastard!), usually it’s a quck broadside and then nothing once they are rebuked. At least this is a debate now.
I never said our government wasn’t corrupt, give a man power and it will be abused. I just thought it was funny that Mr Cocky Iemma has gotten the arse! He’s made a few remarks about Melbourne lately, especially when Sydney was put on the World Monopoly board and Melbourne wasn’t (but where was it on the Australian Monopoly board?). Childish.
Elliot’s point was simple but water-tight. Well done!
CARN THE HAWKS!!!!
Don’t worry about Darkhawk’s ravings, he’s just peeved at the world because I comprehensively demolished and refuted his historically absurd, irrelevant and bigoted attacks on Catholics.
Come on, the Conde Nast survey was about which cities are interesting places to visit, not the best places to live. Would you really want to live in San Francisco, Cape Town, Damascus, or Bangkok, which all came near the top?
Comprehensive? You only put your arguments in after I promised to finish with our debate! And you took a whole week to post your misguided rebuttals, yet it was only a day after I had declared it over. Even though Oben also disagreed with me he still showed a bit of respect and was also willing to let it go. I respect him for that. You are a coward, and I’m going to stick to my promise and won’t waste anymore time on the subject, you can believe what you want. Pearls to swine, mate!
Good point about about the list, though. At least I can remove myself from our debate and compliment you. You are showing what sort of person you are…
“true fact by international standards”, The Anholt City Brands Index number 1 ranking for Sydney is a nice little thumbs up but lets be honest, it doesn’t carry much substance. It is a survey of magazine readers, most of whom probably haven’t been to Australia.
Coca Cola is the worlds No 1 brand and McDonalds is right up there too. As I said, doesn’t carry much substance.
So while you’re washing down your Big Mac with some Coke thinking how wonderful it is, I will enjoy just about anything else.
The Taj Mahal is one of the 7 Wonders of the World and what most people think of when they think of India. The Taj Mahal is in Agra and is India’s No 1 tourist attraction but Agra would be nowhere near the best city in India and if it were not for the Taj few people would visit.
I know Sydney is no Agra and has a lot more to offer than a couple of landmarks but you can see my point that tourists and their fanciful impressions don’t mean much.
Remember some still think we have no trees and ride on the backs of kangaroos etc, etc.
What I don’t like about Sydney is not the city its self but its attitude towards Melbourne. I know there are plenty of people from Sydney who do like Melbourne but “Melbourne Bashing” is a common sport in Sydney and has been for as long as I can remember. Yes, I can already hear a collective “We don’t care about Melbourne and the rivalry is only a Melbourne thing” but your now ex-premier had a crack when he could and so does your media. Q. Why do they do this? A. because it is popular and it wins votes and sells papers, etc. Sydneysiders love it but don’t want to of admit it. In a display of arrogance they like to pretend they are too good for such comparisons, just another way taking a shot at Melbourne.
It is amazing to what extent some Sydneysiders will go to try and make Melbourne look bad, they will try and turn just about anything into a negative. Lets take the “European Style City” description of Melbourne. You typically get this, “Melbourne is trying to be Europe, Melbourne will never be Paris”, etc, etc. No one in Melbourne thinks they are living in “Europe” nor are we claiming to be “Paris”. It is simply a way of describing some of the characteristics of Melbourne and it is not unfounded.
I had some relatives from O.S. visit recently and while in the city one of them said, “Oh, this is like Europe”. I was also talking to a Swedish Backpacker working in a bar in the city recently and they were telling me how they liked the “European Feel” of the city and were surprised by it.
Melbourne is not trying to be Paris any more than Sydney is trying to be Hong Kong or San Francisco because it is a harbour city and has a large Chinese influence. Melbourne is the way it is because of Hoddle’s grid, first laid out in 1837, the number of significant old buildings, the influence of European migrants and the fact we kept our trams.
European Cities are on the whole very successful and typically set the benchmark for what a city can be. Melbourne does recognize this and has applied lesions learned in Europe. I do confess we did have some recent help from a Dutchman by the name of Jan Gehl just as Sydney had some help from a Dutchman by the name of Jorn Utzon when building a certain building.
Sydney will eventually follow as it often does.
Something Melbourne has perhaps followed Sydney on is self-promotion.
When I visited Sydney in the 1980’s, I liked the way Sydney promoted its self and wondered why Melbourne made little effort to do the same.
Since then Melbourne has become very good at self-promotion and it is funny how much of a reaction it stirs in Sydney. It comes across like, “How dare they say that, they should know their place, we are the Global City”.
“Global City”, if Melbourne is ambitious for using the word “European” when describing its self what is Sydney doing when is says “Global City, Global City, Global City”. Do you think New York or London use that phrase as often as Sydney? Sydney says it so often you could be forgiven for thinking Sydney is shaped like a ball.
I don’t agree with Mick and others like him that Melburnians are selfish, arrogant and don’t appreciate the rest of Australia, certainly not more than Sydney. Just about everyone I know loves the whole country as much as Melbourne and most people I know who like Melbourne more are people who have moved here from somewhere else. If it is Melbourne that is arrogant, self conceived and selfish? Then why is it only Sydneysiders who will say things like, “Where’s Melbourne”? I have seen that many times.
The thing is most Melburnians do like Sydney and appreciate its virtues. Sydney is a city that captures the imaginations of foreigners and does best represent the world’s image of Australia. Sydney’s setting is among the best in the world and Melburnians don’t deny it. Sydney is the capital of Australian culture, (though not necessarily its cultural capital).
What makes Sydney a global city has everything to do with its geography and its image in the minds of foreigners and the fact that it often gets the credit for all things Australian, for those reasons it is unique in the world.
The reason Melburnians like to engage in this debate is because typically Sydney never pays credit where it’s due and does its best to undermine Melbourne’s image. Some Sydneysiders talk like Melbourne is not an asset to Australia and has nothing to offer anyone. Melbourne is just sticking up for its self. Sydney describes Melbourne as a jealous little brother, if this is true then why doesn’t Sydney stick up for its little brother? Instead it tries to make its self look good by putting it’s little brother down in front of the whole world. If Sydney is the big brother then he’s an ass.
It is true that some comments from Melburnians about Sydney are unreasonable and untrue and I don’t condone such comments, but Sydney punches below the belt as a matter of course. While we can’t be sure exactly how and when the rivalry started, I do know that when Melbourne became the largest city in Australia and one of the richest in the world due to the Victorian Gold Rush. Sydney liked to call it “Smellbourne” because the city had grown so fast is had open sewers. That’s been Sydney’s tactic ever since, ignore what’s good, just highlight the flaws even if you have to make it up. How ironic it is that Sydney had a problem with poo as a modern city. Is there still any of that stuff still floating around?
Some Sydneysiders blame their cities shortcomings on bad politicians and imply Melbourne has just been lucky with its leaders. There is a saying, “You get the politicians you deserve”. 1 or 2 bad pollies might be bad luck but when it’s a pattern you have to ask why.
Sydney can rightly lay claim to having various things better than Melbourne but when I read that Sydney’s CBD is better than Melbourne’s I have to quote Rove, “What the?”
I’ll admit I don’t know Sydney’s CBD anywhere near as well as I know Melbourne’s but I have walked around in Sydney’s CBD and find it lacking character on the whole. Most of the old buildings have been demolished for carbon copy office blocks and there is a lack of atmosphere at street level. It has about as much charm as an overgrown shopping centre minus the shops. There are exceptions, The Queen Victoria Building and the Strand which are great. I have been to London, Paris and New York and the feeling you get in the middle of these cities is more like Melbourne’s CBD than Sydney’s, of course neither is quite the same.
Brisbane has a better CBD than Sydney and can teach Melbourne a thing or two. Queen St Mall in Bris’ is the best mall in the country and is typical of the good work being done up north.
If it is true that Sydney doesn’t care about the rivalry and Melbourne is trying hard, then that is not good news for Sydney as someone who is trying will always do better than someone who is not, regardless of talent. “One should never underestimate their opponent”.
Sydney says it is better than Melbourne because of its harbour, its beaches and its slightly warmer weather. Then why does Sydney compare its self to London, Paris and New York? They don’t have the Harbour, beaches and warmer weather either. Why doesn’t Sydney put New York in its place? You know, kick it in the ass and tell it who’s King.
Enough inaccuracies 01.22.06 at 10:36 pm at the top of page made some of these points and others very well.
i think both city has got something to offer, sydney and melb has got its pros and cons.
im a melb bloke but been living in sydney for 10years now and love the city because of its natural beauty and fast paced but in my opnion sydneysiders arent that all rude, melb people are the same when it comes to rudeness both are just as bad as its each other.
both cities learn from each other in the past and still learning from each other as i type this.
we should all appreciate the cities that we both have no matter what and enjoy what its got to offer for everyone.
Very well written, Alan! Nice work.
Well excuse me for having more important things to do than someone who apparently spends all day and night sitting at his computer getting drunk and composing mendacious rants against anyone who declines to share his irrational religious beliefs. You make dozens of demonstrably false allegations, then unilaterally declare the debate “over”, then you have the gall to claim that it’s not you but me who is being a coward and not showing “respect”! You’re unable to think of one piece of evidence to support your calumnies, claiming it’s because you “won’t waste time on the subject” on which you subjected us to numerous extensive rants, yet you still find time to abuse me for pointing out the facts. I never said I believed in Catholicism, my points are not a matter of what I or anyone believes but simple objective facts which you are trying to ignore the existence of, to try to hide your gross embarrassment, because you foolishly denied and misrepresented them.
LOL
You were happy to reply within 24 hours when no evidence was required, check the time stamps! And you were the one spewing forth slander: “Don’t worry about Darkhawk’s ravings, he’s just peeved at the world because I comprehensively demolished and refuted his historically absurd, irrelevant and bigoted attacks on Catholics”. Totally wrong! Stop with the bullshit comments, no one is interested.
The only reason I’m not adding to the argument is because no one is listening, and you obviously can’t handle the idea of being wrong. The only “gross embarrassment” I feel is for you.
Sorry everybody, but this is the last time I will say to Ronk IT’S OVER! Therefore I will ignore all comments made by Ronk henceforth, unless it’s to support a Melbourne vs Sydney argument. I will hold no grudges, religion is the main cause of war and we’ve proven that. We’re both Melbournians and love the place, so maybe he isn’t such a bad guy after all
I reckon both of you need to have a few beers and laugh it out but you’ll probably punch each other out LOL.
I am also a Melbourne bloke and love living in Sydney and i do agree with “Subs” of what this city has to offer, yeah so what if they dont have the Grand Prix, Kooyong Classics and Australian Open, its only held once a year but there is more to life than dreading over those things and the cafe life, I’ve met so many awesome Sydneysiders and yes they are really nice people.
A few have mentioned that Sydney is a dirty place??? WTF ?? Melb is no different it has its dirty parts in the city and the surrounding suburbs, Vic nearly went bankrupt because of its politicians (wankers) and i hope that NSW doesnt also now that morris iemma is gone, hopefully NSW will recover.
Melbourne and Sydney has its fair share of violence , for example, with those raving gangs going around Melbourne with samurai swords cutting each other up about 2years ago (correct me if im wrong), the other night in Melb nightclub some bloke got his head kicked in because of an argument and another guy had his throat slashed and this is in one night.
Sydney has its violence also because of poor police funding and because of this down fall they wont be able to perform their job.
Its not the people to blame in each city its what the government makes of it.
“Darkhawk” your a funny fella but stop ya drinking mate LOL, i’ll shout ya a couple of fosters one day mate.
Im a Melbourne bloke through and through but love Sydney more and more everyday. Were all aussies here no matter where you came from.
I agree with Subs and Ken, both cities are awesome. Sydney has more of an outdoor scenery and alot more outdoor festivals and sports, were as melb is more of an indoor scenery with indoor sports etc.
Ive spoken with alot of sydney people and they like going down to melbourne and vice versa.
Sydney and Melbourne share the trophy with rude and arrogant people but thats the way life is everyone.
Sydney and Melbourne all the way wooohooooo.
I’ll drink to that, Ken!
I hope this gets by the spam filter but it’s a great article:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/09/13/1220857897713.html
smh stands for Sydney Morning Herald. They have no option but to concede! They finish the article with a typical Sydneysider rebuttal (see my earlier formula, then minus 100!) and an outdated Paul Keating quote. No denying the facts, though!
I just realised what Lauren said in her post, “were as melb is more of an indoor scenery with indoor sports etc.” (grammar and spelling not corrected).
I didn’t realise Aussie Rules was an indoor sport! Or cricket. Or soccer. Or F1 racing…. WAIT! Basketball is an indoor sport and Sydney doesn’t have a team anymore (the Spirit is still West Sydney Razorbacks as far as I’m concerned!)! Might be onto something there, Lauren!
OK, I’ve had a few beers, but drunken truth is still the truth. BITE ME!
Darkhawk, you have produced no evidence to support any of your points and refuted none of my points, nor even attempted to, other than to say “bulls….”. So don’t pretend it’s not obvious who is dumping his crap here.
Eeeeeeew bite you darkhawk? you’d wreak with alcohol, nevertheless both cities are great. In the past wasnt Melb also down in the dumps, maybe its Sydneys turn, every city in the world has its ups and downs.
Just because Melbourne is going to overtake Sydney in 20years time, and hearing you rambling on “melb is soooooo great” is like hearing a year 8 school kid.
Do you hate sydneyso much that you couldnt cut it up here or is it the fact that someone did something to you whilst you were up here???
darkhawk, your showing your true side how self indulgent you are, your sounding like an arrogant american everytime you write on this site.
Im from melb and support both cities, the only city to show its arrogance is people from melb and its definitely overtaken from sydneys attitude.
EVERYONE …… AS DARKHAWK WOULD SAY “ITS OVER, KAPUT, IM ALWAYS RIGHT”
When was being passionate considered childish? As I said earlier, I’m having a laugh here, so won’t apologise! Also, I never said I hate Sydney! In fact, I’ve defended it in earlier posts and acknowledged it’s good points when they are brought up. We should be proud of our two cities, rivalry has been integral to both cities excellence and I shall pour as much petrol on this fire as I can!
Only the great can be arrogant! GO HAWKS!!!!
darkhawk is going to pour petrol in this fire he says??? hahahahhahaha
your always drunk and end up pouring the petrol on yourself.
dont worry too much about darkhawk, he reminds me of this little kid in high school always attracting attention to himself abit like willie mason. “ITS OVER”
darkhawk raves on so much that he turns to alcohol to type something on here bahahahha, great way to advertise our great cities darkhawk. “ITS OVER”
you need to get laid mate or are you having erection problems because your blood alcohol level is always .05 sheeeesh your a tosser in so many levels. “ITS OVER”
ITS OVER ITS OVER ITS OVER ITS OVER ITS OVER ITS OVER..
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