Comments on: The Good Food Guide: to agree or disagree (and the future possibilities) http://www.tomatom.com/2008/08/784/ The insiders' guide to food and drink in Melbourne. Since 2005. Tue, 07 Feb 2012 07:40:44 +0000 hourly 1 By: Elliot http://www.tomatom.com/2008/08/784/comment-page-1/#comment-39536 Elliot Wed, 03 Sep 2008 06:31:44 +0000 http://www.tomatom.com/?p=784#comment-39536 I wish we had the equivalent of Zagat here. They amalgamate 10' of 1000's of readers views on Food, Decor, Service and Cost with marks out of 30 and ave sort of costs I > $25 M$26-$40 E $41-$64 or VE $66+ or a $ estimate of dinner with one drink. They include adress, ph. no, web address and a pithy review rarely more than six short lines. Because there are so many contributors it becomes fairly reliable and personal biases are ironed out. They even tell you if there have been very few reviews of a restaurant. How can AGF or GT compare to this??? I wish we had the equivalent of Zagat here. They amalgamate 10′ of 1000′s of readers views on Food, Decor, Service and Cost with marks out of 30 and ave sort of costs I > $25 M$26-$40 E $41-$64 or VE $66+ or a $ estimate of dinner with one drink. They include adress, ph. no, web address and a pithy review rarely more than six short lines.
Because there are so many contributors it becomes fairly reliable and personal biases are ironed out. They even tell you if there have been very few reviews of a restaurant. How can AGF or GT compare to this???

]]> By: Ed http://www.tomatom.com/2008/08/784/comment-page-1/#comment-39437 Ed Mon, 01 Sep 2008 23:39:02 +0000 http://www.tomatom.com/?p=784#comment-39437 Jessie, good points Thermomixer, believe me there are many more changes we just haven't heard about them yet and you'll have also read it in my column in Xtrafood - Lethlean isn't the only one writing about this ;-) The deadline is Feb/March for most entries so it is six months out of date on publication. I bet we'll see more pooling of content between Good Living and Epicure. Neil, that's another discussion. I'm just how far I go in public. Jessie, good points

Thermomixer, believe me there are many more changes we just haven’t heard about them yet and you’ll have also read it in my column in Xtrafood – Lethlean isn’t the only one writing about this ;-)
The deadline is Feb/March for most entries so it is six months out of date on publication. I bet we’ll see more pooling of content between Good Living and Epicure.

Neil, that’s another discussion. I’m just how far I go in public.

]]> By: Thermomixer http://www.tomatom.com/2008/08/784/comment-page-1/#comment-39436 Thermomixer Mon, 01 Sep 2008 23:28:58 +0000 http://www.tomatom.com/?p=784#comment-39436 Neil, I'll send you an email. Had to laugh at John Lethlean's opening to his review today - "I'm getting tired of this. You go to a restaurant to review it because you know it has a new chef, only to discover the "new" chef has gone already. It's happened several times this year; it'll undoubtedly happen again." And in Espresso, Hotel Next has seen change of chef & GM. And we're getting tired of paying good money for a guide that quickly becomes meaningless. So, Ed you are probably right in thinking that we will have to go online - even if just to keep up with who is in the restaurant (this week). Neil, I’ll send you an email.

Had to laugh at John Lethlean’s opening to his review today – “I’m getting tired of this. You go to a restaurant to review it because you know it has a new chef, only to discover the “new” chef has gone already. It’s happened several times this year; it’ll undoubtedly happen again.” And in Espresso, Hotel Next has seen change of chef & GM.

And we’re getting tired of paying good money for a guide that quickly becomes meaningless.

So, Ed you are probably right in thinking that we will have to go online – even if just to keep up with who is in the restaurant (this week).

]]> By: neil http://www.tomatom.com/2008/08/784/comment-page-1/#comment-39373 neil Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:34:23 +0000 http://www.tomatom.com/?p=784#comment-39373 "Not so worried about Lethlean writing for Age & AGT. Can see more conflict with sleeping with or socialising with owners of hatted restaurants." Do tell!!! “Not so worried about Lethlean writing for Age & AGT. Can see more conflict with sleeping with or socialising with owners of hatted restaurants.”

Do tell!!!

]]> By: Thermomixer http://www.tomatom.com/2008/08/784/comment-page-1/#comment-39269 Thermomixer Sat, 30 Aug 2008 00:28:26 +0000 http://www.tomatom.com/?p=784#comment-39269 I stopped buying GFG many years ago. Too often there are changes in chefs/staff that make considerable change in what you will get in overall experience. Not so worried about Lethlean writing for Age & AGT. Can see more conflict with sleeping with or socialising with owners of hatted restaurants. Never been to Press Club, but don't think it appropriate to include "the frequent upselling of drinks – from bottled water to dessert wines – is unwelcome" in their review. That happens at many other restaurants, and one where what appears to have been offered as a freebie then appearing on the bill (frequently). Really don't think the public demotions are productive. Good Living amalgamating with Epicure ? I don't think so. In Tuesday's Good Living the report from Scott Bowles in Short Black <b>"And the winner is...</b> With restaurant award season in full flight across the country, attention turned south last night for The Age Good Food Guide 2009 awards. And the Melbourne winner is Sydney. Bennelong chef Guillaume Brahimi has picked up best new restaurant at the awards for his recently opened Melbourne eatery, Bistro Guillaume. In what was believed to be a two-horse race for the award, Brahimi pipped North Bondi Italian Food's Melbourne clone, Giuseppe, Arnaldo & Sons. The Sydney success follows last year's snaffling of the Restaurant of the Year award by Neil Perry for his Rockpool Bar & Grill from under the nose of Melbourne restaurateurs. The Age has a history of giving restaurant of the year to an underdog and this year's choice illustrates that down south you don't have to be a heavyweight to be the best boxer around. The winner was low-key Attica at unfashionable Ripponlea." Guess it has sold papers. I stopped buying GFG many years ago. Too often there are changes in chefs/staff that make considerable change in what you will get in overall experience.
Not so worried about Lethlean writing for Age & AGT. Can see more conflict with sleeping with or socialising with owners of hatted restaurants.
Never been to Press Club, but don’t think it appropriate to include “the frequent upselling of drinks – from bottled water to dessert wines – is unwelcome” in their review. That happens at many other restaurants, and one where what appears to have been offered as a freebie then appearing on the bill (frequently).
Really don’t think the public demotions are productive.
Good Living amalgamating with Epicure ? I don’t think so. In Tuesday’s Good Living the report from Scott Bowles in Short Black
“And the winner is…
With restaurant award season in full flight across the country, attention turned south last night for The Age Good Food Guide 2009 awards. And the Melbourne winner is Sydney. Bennelong chef Guillaume Brahimi has picked up best new restaurant at the awards for his recently opened Melbourne eatery, Bistro Guillaume. In what was believed to be a two-horse race for the award, Brahimi pipped North Bondi Italian Food’s Melbourne clone, Giuseppe, Arnaldo & Sons. The Sydney success follows last year’s snaffling of the Restaurant of the Year award by Neil Perry for his Rockpool Bar & Grill from under the nose of Melbourne restaurateurs. The Age has a history of giving restaurant of the year to an underdog and this year’s choice illustrates that down south you don’t have to be a heavyweight to be the best boxer around. The winner was low-key Attica at unfashionable Ripponlea.”
Guess it has sold papers.

]]> By: Jessie http://www.tomatom.com/2008/08/784/comment-page-1/#comment-39161 Jessie Thu, 28 Aug 2008 04:57:04 +0000 http://www.tomatom.com/?p=784#comment-39161 I thougth GFG got a lot right this year- particularly celebrating talented, low key ppl like Shewry and Camorra. Glad to see George "The Feta Whore" Calombaris lose a hat. Think the "Bacchus" category is a bit of a wank- in form, but not in content. You are right about the future of the GFG being integrated online content, i don't think they get it yet. And re Age staff cuts: "You don't do MORE with less, you do LESS with less." David Simon, The Wire I thougth GFG got a lot right this year- particularly celebrating talented, low key ppl like Shewry and Camorra.
Glad to see George “The Feta Whore” Calombaris lose a hat.
Think the “Bacchus” category is a bit of a wank- in form, but not in content.
You are right about the future of the GFG being integrated online content, i don’t think they get it yet.
And re Age staff cuts: “You don’t do MORE with less, you do LESS with less.” David Simon, The Wire

]]> By: Ed http://www.tomatom.com/2008/08/784/comment-page-1/#comment-39159 Ed Thu, 28 Aug 2008 04:24:10 +0000 http://www.tomatom.com/?p=784#comment-39159 Rory, true. The tripadvisor and Urbanspoon come into their own as iPhone Apps, espcially urbanspoon, with its slot machine spinning wheel type interface. Online on a computer they are all lousy. Rory, true. The tripadvisor and Urbanspoon come into their own as iPhone Apps, espcially urbanspoon, with its slot machine spinning wheel type interface. Online on a computer they are all lousy.

]]> By: Rory http://www.tomatom.com/2008/08/784/comment-page-1/#comment-39157 Rory Thu, 28 Aug 2008 02:52:14 +0000 http://www.tomatom.com/?p=784#comment-39157 I think scoring something subjective will never provide good guide to readers. The discussion of the matter in question gives the reader a far better understanding of what their experience is going to be like and whether they personally will enjoy it. I always listen to what Margaret and David have to say on <i>At the Movies</i> and never their star rating for example. Scoring is a cop out by the writers and the readers, if you bother putting a restaurant in the good food guide it must be worth checking out or why is it there?! So if you want to highlight the top teir (top 5%?) put them in a special section and leave the rest of the reviews to be READ! We keep going back to Chimmeys on Bridge Road, Richmond for example because the baked goods are excellent. However each time we comment on the poor atmosphere and unfriendly barely competent staff. Something like that can really only be conveyed through review text rather than a rating. The sites you mentioned, Yelp! and Eatability both need some serious design changes before I would start using them. Their sites are visually complicated and so not easy to jump into. I'm in the web application trade btw hence the harsh criticism. ;) I think scoring something subjective will never provide good guide to readers. The discussion of the matter in question gives the reader a far better understanding of what their experience is going to be like and whether they personally will enjoy it. I always listen to what Margaret and David have to say on At the Movies and never their star rating for example.

Scoring is a cop out by the writers and the readers, if you bother putting a restaurant in the good food guide it must be worth checking out or why is it there?! So if you want to highlight the top teir (top 5%?) put them in a special section and leave the rest of the reviews to be READ!

We keep going back to Chimmeys on Bridge Road, Richmond for example because the baked goods are excellent. However each time we comment on the poor atmosphere and unfriendly barely competent staff. Something like that can really only be conveyed through review text rather than a rating.

The sites you mentioned, Yelp! and Eatability both need some serious design changes before I would start using them. Their sites are visually complicated and so not easy to jump into. I’m in the web application trade btw hence the harsh criticism. ;)

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