Comments on: Confessions of a cheese judge http://www.tomatom.com/2008/08/confessions-of-a-cheese-judge-and-a-call-to-action/ The insiders' guide to food and drink in Melbourne. Since 2005. Tue, 07 Feb 2012 07:40:44 +0000 hourly 1 By: Ed http://www.tomatom.com/2008/08/confessions-of-a-cheese-judge-and-a-call-to-action/comment-page-1/#comment-44384 Ed Mon, 09 Feb 2009 01:02:18 +0000 http://www.tomatom.com/?p=778#comment-44384 Welcome, Richard and thanks for commenting. It's a sad state of affairs that our cheese making industry body has lost its way. You've reminded me that I must catch up on the state of affairs cheese. Welcome, Richard and thanks for commenting. It’s a sad state of affairs that our cheese making industry body has lost its way. You’ve reminded me that I must catch up on the state of affairs cheese.

]]> By: Thermomixer http://www.tomatom.com/2008/08/confessions-of-a-cheese-judge-and-a-call-to-action/comment-page-1/#comment-44383 Thermomixer Sun, 08 Feb 2009 22:21:59 +0000 http://www.tomatom.com/?p=778#comment-44383 Hi Richard Do you really think the Europeans know something about cheese? Holy cow ! Revolutionary. Bugger me, I thought we invented it down in the Kraft factory. Only joking. It doesn't take long in one of the fromageries in Paris to suddenly realize that we really are so far behind. Look forward to hearing more at the next Grandview bash. You won't be written out of the history books ;) Hi Richard

Do you really think the Europeans know something about cheese? Holy cow ! Revolutionary. Bugger me, I thought we invented it down in the Kraft factory.

Only joking. It doesn’t take long in one of the fromageries in Paris to suddenly realize that we really are so far behind.

Look forward to hearing more at the next Grandview bash.

You won’t be written out of the history books ;)

]]> By: Richard Thomas http://www.tomatom.com/2008/08/confessions-of-a-cheese-judge-and-a-call-to-action/comment-page-1/#comment-44381 Richard Thomas Sun, 08 Feb 2009 17:27:32 +0000 http://www.tomatom.com/?p=778#comment-44381 Where've I been? Just back from France actually. Found a little hotel on the Blvd Port Royal near Metro 'Les Gobelins' Paris. Just behind the hotel was 'rue Mouffetard' pron: moofta (without the P) 3 amazing fromagers including the well known name 'androuet' Top end food street, 200 metres of the best food I've tasted in a while. Interesting that 90% of the those cheeses were Raw, natural & extraordinarily delicious, mouth candy. In Louis XVth in Monaco, the Ducasse extravaganza, all the cheese was from Raw Milk, at Mugaritz (what a lunch there) all Raw Milk. We have to deduce that our less visionary cheese 'in-cogniscenti' want to maintain an 'also ran' or commodity reputation in the international marketplace, being price takers not quality makers. But I do ask "to what end"? What am I missing in this scenario, after all the perpetrators of the anti-raw milk lobby are not complete morons. Could someone enlighten me on their thinking? David Brown who had been a long time friend until sadly, we became colleagues in the cheese business, has stated, as the ASCA President that it is a commercial decision to rail against Raw Milk Natural cheese, but fails to realise (or for some more obscure reason, fails to acknowledge) that although the Raw milk sector of European cheese production is only a fraction of the market, it generates a massive returns economically and in status, to those producers. David's view seems to be that there is no economic future there. He recently suggested to a Churchill Fellow that " there is nothing to be learned about cheesemaking in Europe: we have it all here". I'm supposing that he also believes that they can't build churches either. According to my observations and those of the highly astute Sandy Cameron of the highly successful Meredith Dairy, the European Milk & Cheese industry is technically way ahead of us, not to mention the far more important traditional experience. The winemakers at DeBortoli for example, young, intelligent & visionary, unashamedly draw upon European inspiration at every turn and aspire to the complexity, austerity, integrity and reputation of tradition to produce wines of similar character. This should also be the pursuit of our cheese makers, fermented meat producers, chefs and any other food producers who wish to excel. It is time to move forward and everyone should listen to the final lecture by Rupert Murdoch in his condemnation of complacency in this country & the intervention of bureaucratic conservatism world wide. Well...... glad I got that off my chest. Nick Haddow & I will get together to share our experiences at the Caseus Awards 2009 and beyond. Good site by the way. Where’ve I been?
Just back from France actually. Found a little hotel on the Blvd Port Royal near Metro ‘Les Gobelins’ Paris.
Just behind the hotel was ‘rue Mouffetard’ pron: moofta (without the P)
3 amazing fromagers including the well known name ‘androuet’
Top end food street, 200 metres of the best food I’ve tasted in a while.
Interesting that 90% of the those cheeses were Raw, natural & extraordinarily delicious, mouth candy.
In Louis XVth in Monaco, the Ducasse extravaganza, all the cheese was from Raw Milk, at Mugaritz (what a lunch there) all Raw Milk.
We have to deduce that our less visionary cheese ‘in-cogniscenti’ want to maintain an ‘also ran’ or commodity reputation in the international marketplace, being price takers not quality makers. But I do ask “to what end”? What am I missing in this scenario, after all the perpetrators of the anti-raw milk lobby are not complete morons. Could someone enlighten me on their thinking?
David Brown who had been a long time friend until sadly, we became colleagues in the cheese business, has stated, as the ASCA President that it is a commercial decision to rail against Raw Milk Natural cheese, but fails to realise (or for some more obscure reason, fails to acknowledge) that although the Raw milk sector of European cheese production is only a fraction of the market, it generates a massive returns economically and in status, to those producers.
David’s view seems to be that there is no economic future there. He recently suggested to a Churchill Fellow that ” there is nothing to be learned about cheesemaking in Europe: we have it all here”.
I’m supposing that he also believes that they can’t build churches either.
According to my observations and those of the highly astute Sandy Cameron of the highly successful Meredith Dairy, the European Milk & Cheese industry is technically way ahead of us, not to mention the far more important traditional experience.
The winemakers at DeBortoli for example, young, intelligent & visionary, unashamedly draw upon European inspiration at every turn and aspire to the complexity, austerity, integrity and reputation of tradition to produce wines of similar character.
This should also be the pursuit of our cheese makers, fermented meat producers, chefs and any other food producers who wish to excel.
It is time to move forward and everyone should listen to the final lecture by Rupert Murdoch in his condemnation of complacency in this country & the intervention of bureaucratic conservatism world wide.
Well…… glad I got that off my chest.
Nick Haddow & I will get together to share our experiences at the Caseus Awards 2009 and beyond.
Good site by the way.

]]> By: matt http://www.tomatom.com/2008/08/confessions-of-a-cheese-judge-and-a-call-to-action/comment-page-1/#comment-44151 matt Sun, 04 Jan 2009 06:07:19 +0000 http://www.tomatom.com/?p=778#comment-44151 i guess what i'm saying is that this whole conversation is about something so much larger than cheese. such a shame but yeah leads me to what i said b4, cheers. i guess what i’m saying is that this whole conversation is about something so much larger than cheese. such a shame but yeah leads me to what i said b4, cheers.

]]> By: matt http://www.tomatom.com/2008/08/confessions-of-a-cheese-judge-and-a-call-to-action/comment-page-1/#comment-44150 matt Sun, 04 Jan 2009 06:03:49 +0000 http://www.tomatom.com/?p=778#comment-44150 self sufficiency is the wealth of the future. one party is always going to get the raw end of the stick. so much red tape to make a buck let alone producing fine traditional foods to make that buck from. i'm going to have a crack anyway and if all else fails i can eat my produce but not my money. barter anyone? self sufficiency is the wealth of the future. one party is always going to get the raw end of the stick. so much red tape to make a buck let alone producing fine traditional foods to make that buck from. i’m going to have a crack anyway and if all else fails i can eat my produce but not my money. barter anyone?

]]> By: Duncan | Syrup&Tang http://www.tomatom.com/2008/08/confessions-of-a-cheese-judge-and-a-call-to-action/comment-page-1/#comment-38537 Duncan | Syrup&Tang Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:30:44 +0000 http://www.tomatom.com/?p=778#comment-38537 Coming back to this very late... I don't think anyone has quite said this, but apologies if I'm echoing someone: The cost of good (and not so good) Australia cheeses is disproportionately high relative to many other foodstuffs. Reasonably good cheeses are much more affordable (or less dauntingly more expensive) in France or Germany, say. Aussie cheesemakers face real challenges to survive. It looks like a lose-lose situation to me: we can't adequately support local cheesemakers from such a small consumer base, but if we open up the market for export/import, Aussie consumers are unlikely to prefer fairly pricey local cheeses over cheaper imports. Coming back to this very late… I don’t think anyone has quite said this, but apologies if I’m echoing someone:

The cost of good (and not so good) Australia cheeses is disproportionately high relative to many other foodstuffs. Reasonably good cheeses are much more affordable (or less dauntingly more expensive) in France or Germany, say. Aussie cheesemakers face real challenges to survive. It looks like a lose-lose situation to me: we can’t adequately support local cheesemakers from such a small consumer base, but if we open up the market for export/import, Aussie consumers are unlikely to prefer fairly pricey local cheeses over cheaper imports.

]]> By: Thermomixer http://www.tomatom.com/2008/08/confessions-of-a-cheese-judge-and-a-call-to-action/comment-page-1/#comment-38450 Thermomixer Thu, 21 Aug 2008 08:04:48 +0000 http://www.tomatom.com/?p=778#comment-38450 Sorry, I was thinking chateau cardboard = Kraft slices. If large companies were able to support smaller producers while allowing independence with production, then I would support that idea. Sorry, I was thinking chateau cardboard = Kraft slices.
If large companies were able to support smaller producers while allowing independence with production, then I would support that idea.

]]> By: Ed http://www.tomatom.com/2008/08/confessions-of-a-cheese-judge-and-a-call-to-action/comment-page-1/#comment-38446 Ed Thu, 21 Aug 2008 07:47:12 +0000 http://www.tomatom.com/?p=778#comment-38446 Thermo, I'm not taking cardboard but the benefits of a large owner (with massive distribution) interested in innovation which can help bring the costs down. Given the chance and the education there must be lots of people who would grow into the taste of goof local cheese. Thermo, I’m not taking cardboard but the benefits of a large owner (with massive distribution) interested in innovation which can help bring the costs down. Given the chance and the education there must be lots of people who would grow into the taste of goof local cheese.

]]> By: Thermomixer http://www.tomatom.com/2008/08/confessions-of-a-cheese-judge-and-a-call-to-action/comment-page-1/#comment-38445 Thermomixer Thu, 21 Aug 2008 07:26:56 +0000 http://www.tomatom.com/?p=778#comment-38445 Guess it is relatively expensive, but then I consider it more of a "luxury" item. Yes, the analogy with wine is good - chateau cardboard, the bulk $8 - 15 - 20 wines and then those that we pay a little ( or a lot) more for and appreciate. Bruny was saying that we don't get European artisanal cheeses in our restaurants, likely that the economies of scale are the same here - too expensive to import for such a small market. Not sure if the prices will (or should) come down that much for a while. The costs of production are rising - ingredients and labour. We (gladly) pay $3,000 per kilo for a piece of mould that grows at the base of trees. I will support both of these industries even if they appear expensive, but yes, the majority of Australians would not agree. Guess it is relatively expensive, but then I consider it more of a “luxury” item. Yes, the analogy with wine is good – chateau cardboard, the bulk $8 – 15 – 20 wines and then those that we pay a little ( or a lot) more for and appreciate.
Bruny was saying that we don’t get European artisanal cheeses in our restaurants, likely that the economies of scale are the same here – too expensive to import for such a small market.
Not sure if the prices will (or should) come down that much for a while. The costs of production are rising – ingredients and labour.
We (gladly) pay $3,000 per kilo for a piece of mould that grows at the base of trees. I will support both of these industries even if they appear expensive, but yes, the majority of Australians would not agree.

]]> By: neil http://www.tomatom.com/2008/08/confessions-of-a-cheese-judge-and-a-call-to-action/comment-page-1/#comment-38439 neil Thu, 21 Aug 2008 06:40:36 +0000 http://www.tomatom.com/?p=778#comment-38439 Jeez, I'd hate to milk a goat. Comparable French goat's milk cheeses at RHCL range between $110kg/$133kg, so in the scheme of things, given their tiny size and struggles with the drought, the Holy Goat La Luna does represent value for money, if you like a great cheese and don't mind paying for it. The question is, who wants a cheese like this? Me, I'm for it and along with thermomixer buy it, not just for the sake of it, it's one of mine and my wife's favourite Aussie cheeses. Jeez, I’d hate to milk a goat. Comparable French goat’s milk cheeses at RHCL range between $110kg/$133kg, so in the scheme of things, given their tiny size and struggles with the drought, the Holy Goat La Luna does represent value for money, if you like a great cheese and don’t mind paying for it. The question is, who wants a cheese like this? Me, I’m for it and along with thermomixer buy it, not just for the sake of it, it’s one of mine and my wife’s favourite Aussie cheeses.

]]>